Anonymous – WTF? – Archived

Hate Crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation. Hate crimes differ from conventional crime because they are not directed simply at an individual, but are meant to cause fear and intimidation in an entire group or class of people. Hate crime can take many forms. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters.

In 2006 the internet saw the creation of a phantom calling itself “Anonymous”. With recruits from porn and manga boards the new built group went to town stealing passwords, hacking and crashing MySpace pages and generally being obnoxious to other netizens. Some of Anonymous didn’t want to stop there and extended their work into real life. Online and real life harassment of those perceived as “enemies” followed.

In January 2008 this group got hijacked by another breed of online criminals and gotten to form an truly international form of cyber-terrorism. “Anonymous” now focused on members and buildings of the Church of Scientology. Bomb and death threats on YouTube and other public places were followed by the firing of guns against Church buildings. One might think the situation got out of hand. Nothing further from the truth, Anonymous is now being steered by people who know exactly what they want, how to “push buttons” with with the original manga and porn freaks to set them lose to destroy a religious minority. One could say that Anonymous fails to clean its ranks from psychos and criminals but – without morals to protect it and cowardice as “party line” – is actually actively supporting terrorist activities. Freedom of Expression however ends if is expressed with firing a bullet into someone’s head. It stops to be a civil right the moment someone gets terrorized and harmed by acts of Anonymous. The joke is over since a long time and you didn’t notice. The joke morphed into something you can be jailed for. Is that so hard to understand?

That’s my take. What’s yours?

– Louanne

Update 12 March 2008:

There is a video documentary called “Anonymous – Hate Crimes & Terrorism Directed at Scientology” which got posted on YouTube yesterday, giving all sorts of details about what Anonymous did. I checked, and this is actually a DVD which the Church is mailing out since a couple of days. You might consider this as well:

Update 24 March 2008:

Older discussions are archived here:

Feb 29 to March 14, 2008: https://scientologymyths.wordpress.com/anonymous-wtf/whats-your-take-on-anonymous/

Mar 14 to Mar 24, 2008: https://scientologymyths.wordpress.com/anonymous-wtf/anonymous-scientology/

56 Comments

  1. “In my own family there are 12 VICTIMS OF PSYCHIATRY….and 3 are dead because of them…..Each person after only visits to a psychiatrist because of being run down or tired, OR SENT BY A MEDICAL DOCTOR BECAUSE OF A MUSCLE DISSEASE.. SO THEY COULD DEAL WITH THEIR COMING DISABILITY….or whatever, .were put on PSYCHIATRIST DRUGS…..AND EVERY ONE of them were unable to function in life….after that, unable to work or support themselves…..mental cripples…….
    One, a 25 year old boy, after 2 years on those dangerous drugs, put a gun in his mouth and shot himself in his mother’s back yard.”

    I’m sorry to hear that, but the plural of anecdote is not “data”.

    “AND YOU ALL THINK SOCIALISM IS SOOOOO GREAT”
    ….what?

  2. My mother died with Alzheimer’s years ago. I started genetic research to protect myself and my children from that dreaded death.
    I had a friend who had a 3rd generation family owned insurance agency. He had told me that he had documentation that proved that Genetic Illnesses OCCURED 15 YEARS EARLIER IN EACH GENERATION. His example in his immediate life was his wife’s family, each person died of breast cancer 15 years earlier in each generation.

    My mother was some of the first young people to get Alzheimer’s (age 45) and died at 59. It was an unknown illness in those days.Doctor’s knew nothing about it, and had never heard of it. My mother’s father had it at 92, and his sister also had it.
    Even though they told us it was not genetic when she was ill, I knew different because of her family history.
    I was 25 when she died, that meant that I would get it at 30, and WHEN YOU LOOK DEATH IN THE FACE AT 25, YOU SOBER UP FAST. I HAD ONE SON, 1 1/2 YRS OLD, AND I KNEW I WOULD NOT LAST LONG ENOUGH TO RAISE HIM TO AN SO HE WOULD REMEMBER ME. SO I STARTED GENETIC RESEARCH TO SAVE HIS LIFE AND MINE. …I found the cure as well as the Cause…in 4 1/2 years.
    3 years later when I had my second child, and wrote down Alzheimer’s on my medical chart, I would have Doctors and nurses from All the floors above and below coming and standing around my bedside, listening to me lecture on Alzheimer’s.

    ALZHEIMER’S BECAME WITHIN 7 YEARS…FROM AN UNKNOWN ILLNESS TO THE FREQUENCY IN THE WORLD POPULATION….1 IN EVERY 3 FAMILIES…..WAS SHOCKING.
    WHY WOULD SUCH A HORRIBLE ILLNESS COME ON SO FAST IN THE WORLD POPULATION….??
    I had found the cure for the Alzheimer’s illness BY COMPILING THE MEDICAL PROFESSION’S DATA…AND HANDING IT BACK TO THEM….BUT…THEY DID NOT WANT IT…..
    From igoring, to outright harrassment….to keep the data hidden…..
    I was lamenting this to someone one time, and they said “let me show you something”
    They got documents….hidden documents…not for the public eye…and let me read them and put them back….
    These documents showed where a Pharmaceutical company…(starting with the letter B)….worked with the American Cancer Federation…..and took a small amount of 5 DIFFERENT STRAINS OF CANCER VIRUSES….AND MADE THEM INTO A HUGE AMOUNT…AND PIGGYBACKED THEM IN THE ….POLIO VACCINE….STARTING IN 1954 AND WITH THE HELP OF THE …WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION….THAT WAS BASED IN A RUSSIAN COUNTRY AT THE TIME… AND SHOT THEM ALL OVER THE WORLD.
    NOT ONLY WERE THESE 5 STRAINS OF CANCER IN THE SLUSH, BUT SO WAS THIS ….ALZHEIMER’S VIRUS….ALONG WITH A FEW OTHERS…PIGGY BACKED WITH THE POLIO VIRUS…. THESE VIRUSES WERE ACTUALLY GENETICALLY ENGINEERED TO ATTACK ….SPECIFIC ….GENETIC RACES……
    SPECIFIC GENETIC RACES THAT WERE…..CROSSBREED JEWS….

    They have always claimed that Alzheimer’s was not a virus….and in those days they said you could not kill a virus…but
    BUT I KEPT TELLING THEM THEY COULD AND HOW TO KILL VIRUSES….
    NUTRITIONALLY……
    MUCH OF MY WORK …GOT SPECIFIC NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS BANNED BECAUSE THEY KILLED VIRUSES….
    ONE NURSE BECAME SO INFURIATED, HER FACE RED AND WHITE AROUND HER MOUTH..WHEN SHE LEARNED THAT …L-TRYPTOPHANE…KEPT ME FROM HAVING TO USE 8 MEDICAL DRUGE….IN ANOTHER GENETIC FAMILY DISEASE OF OUR FAMILIES…..
    ONE OF THEIR PUPPETS…A DOCTOR FROM MOUNT PLEASANT, TEXAS WROTE A BOOK THAT SAID THAT TRYPTOPHANE MADE THE BLOOD CRYSTOLIZE……
    WHICH IS EXACTLY ….OPPOSITE…OF THE FACT…IT CRYSTALIZES WITHOUT TRYPTOPHANE…AND YOUR MUSCLES SPASM AND TEAR…AND YOU GET INTENSELY IRRITABLE… SOME OF THE MANY THINGS ….
    WITHIN 5 MONTHS…FROM THE TIME THE NURSE FOUND OUT ABOUT MY RESEARCH….L-TRYPTOPHANE WAS OFF THE MARKET…

    When the world became ill and other doctors complained of low tryptophane, they put back a really bad quaity 5-HTP Tryptophane…which does not have the same healing effects as the original…..

    Through the years…I kept researching Genetics….and time and time again…I saw the NAZI connection where they infiltrated every country in the world…before World War !! and convinced the powers that be in each country INCLUDING OUR OWN, that THERE HAD TO BE GENETIC PURITY….IN EACH RACE….
    THAT IS HOW THEY SOLD IT TO THE BLACK RACES AND ORIENTAL RACES…
    BUT IT WAS MORE SINISTER THAN THAT…..
    THEIR PROPAGANDA PROMOTED……
    No illnesses…no childhood illnesses such as measles or mumps, no deformities, no orphans, no short people, LONG LIVED PEOPLE (because Centurians remembered who they were and how the world was when it was free.) no high IQ people, no Low IQ people, just middle of the road IQ so they could be controlled as workers.
    I also kept finding over and over the Nazi’s CONNECTION WITH PSYCHIATRY…..

    Over the years I found over and over that Psychiatrist during the 1800’s went world wide and lectured that there had to be genetic purity…..

    WORLD WIDE, EVEN IN THE UNITED STATES, ALWAYS GOING BEHIND THE SCENES…TRAVELING BETWEEN COUNTRIES….EVEN WARING COUNTRIES…..PRETENDING TO …HELP……IN THE MEDICAL WAY……
    BUT STIRRING…TO KILL OFF THE UNDESIRABLES….
    THE CROSSBREED JEWS…

    REMEMBER…TO FIND THE PROBLEM BETWEEN PEOPLE…FIND THE COMMON DENOMINATOR BETWEEN THEM AND YOU CLEAR UP THEIR FIGHTS…

    There was the German born Psychiatrist connection sent into early Russia, including Trotsky and Lennin trained by the GERMAN PSYCHIATRIST , sent to talk up the working class and give the idea of THIS LIZARD THIS OR THAT ENVIRONMENTAL THING THAT….TO TAKE PEOPLE’S LAND AWAY FROM THEM…. with the creation of the war in Russia. and the idea to SLAUGHTER WHOLE VILLAGE AFTER VILLAGE OF …UNDESIRABLES….
    PEOPLE WITH….CROSSBREED JEW AND GENTILES……WERE TARGETED….

    Soldiers would go from city to city and kill in the most horrible, bloody, fearful method, by disemboweling while still alive, and cutting arms and legs off while still alive.
    One person who could not stand it any more, left and went to England and wrote about it.. He said that he and his superior went into a large room and against the wall were arms and legs and no bodies. His superior said, “THERE HAS BEEN GREAT KILLING HERE TODAY, SHITAN WILL BE PLEASED!”

    The CONNECTION WITH PSYCHIATRY AND THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES WHERE OVER 75 YEARS….PSYCHIATRY WOULD LABEL THOSE UNDESIREABLES INCLUDING ORPHANS, AND POLITICAL UNDESIREABLES, AS WELL AS THOSE THAT SPOKE OUT…AS INSANE AND DRUGGING DOWN THE MASSES….
    THE CONNECTION WHERE 85 PERCENT OF THE RUSSIAN POPULATION WERE DRUGGED INTO CONTROL, WHERE …ONLY ONE….PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY WAS ALLOWED IN THE COUNTRY…MAKING HUGE PROFITS IN THE ….HANDSHAKE BETWEEN PSYCHIATRY AND THE DRUG COMPANY….

    Come forward to Nazi Germany, PSYCHIATRY controlling HITLER WHILE HE WAS …IN…THE MENTAL INSTITUTION…WHERE HE …FOR SOME REASON…GOT HIS GREAT …DREAM…..
    HE WAS KEPT ON DANGEROUS PSYCHOTROPHIC DRUGS TO THE END…AND YOU CAN SEE HIS PSYCHIATRIST….CLOSE BESIDE HIM…ALWAYS….IN THE PHOTOS IN THE BACKGROUND……
    THIER OWN DOCUMENTS SHOW THAT IT WAS HIS PSYCHIATRIST WHO URGED HIM TO ELIMINATE SPECIFIC GROUPS…..OF .
    …CROSSBREED JEWS….
    EVEN WHEN GERMANY WAS FALLING…HE WAS CONTROLLED TO PULL TRUCKS AND SUPPLIES TO CARRYING THE ONES MARKED FOR DEATH….TO THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS……

    Germany’s own documents show where the Psychiatrist did experiments on these prisoners….and the experiments without pain killers……
    electric shocks…..surgeries to see what would happen if cut this way or that….experiments with human skin for lampshades and upholstery like they were cattle……
    Twins were really fascinating to psychiatrist…..one would be taken care of well, and the other subjected to horrible tortures to see if they could feel it in the other twin, or if they could know it mentally…..or be affected any way.

    Recall in the basement of one of the Universities……in the United States…a few years ago, where they found walled off……all of these body parts harvested from twins by the German Psychiatrist…..selling them world wide for other’s research and experimenting….like lab animals….

    By their own German documentation, after the war, these prisoners in their horrible tortured state were then institutionalized for their post war syndromes…….and the SAME PSYCHIATRIST…..STILL PRETENDING TO BE HELPING CITIZENS…UNDER THE TITLE OF DOCTORS…. then still had those same victims to AGAIN DO EXPERIMENTS ON………
    Many of these Nazi Psychiatrist fled to Argentina and Chili and other South American countries…..
    During the time I was growing up, people would be escaping from Chili and telling of the horrible tortures….these Psychiatrist who had fled there were helping the Government to torture people. One woman spoke of being stripped naked, tied straddled over a large log that was attached in the wall just high enough so their feet could not reach the floor, and a bucket over her head. The pain of hanging there for days made her scream until she could not hear anything.
    Another woman told of the other women in her cell that the German Psychiatrist that was there in Chili put hungry rats inside of some of the other women’s vigina’s and let them eat their way out.

    The connection comes up over and over…..wherever there is SOCIALISM THERE COMES PSYCHIATRIST YEARS EARLIER …TALKING AND PROMOTING TO THE POPULATION….THE IDEA OF ……SOCIALISM.
    PSYCHIATRIST ARE THE FRONT FINGERS OF SOCIALISM…..
    THERE IS A CONNECTION…..IN COUNTRIES THROUGHOUT THE ISLANDS, AND ANYWHERE YOU SEE SOCIALISM COME IN….JUST BEFORE…DURING…OR AFTER…SOCIALISM COMES IN……THERE IS A WAR…..AND THE UNDESIRABLES AND CROSSBREED JEWS ARE SLAUGHTERED….

    IT IS A DOCUMENTED FACT THAT THE GERMAN NAZIS WERE JEALOUS OF THE UNITED STATES….BECAUSE WE STARTED OUR KILLING OF THE CROSSBREED JEWS OFF YEARS BEFORE THEY DID……BUT QUIETER….AND CLEANER…BY STERAIZATIONS AND INOCULATIONS THAT CARRIED VIRUSES THAT LAY DORMANT…..AND CAME OUT LATER….AS THEIR IMMUNE SYSTEMS WERE LOWERED …..

    Interesting that in Clinton’s term….Hillory’s SOCIALIZED MEDICAL PROGRAM….was read on a talk show program……..and it STATED THAT …ALL CITIZENS…WOULD BE FORCED TO TAKE …A SPECIFIC INNOCULATION…..????

    WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE….There would be notes posted in the Wash rooms, and Rec Centers, WANT TO EARN COLLEGE MONEY…COME TO THE PSYCH DEPARTMENT….AND EARN $25.00.

    My friend went…..they did ELECTRIC SHOCK EXPERIMENTS ON HIM AND LSD EXPERIMENTS ON HIM……AND GAVE HIM LSD AND TOLD TO GO AND GIVE IT TO HIS FRIENDS….
    HE BECAME REALLY MESSED UP AFTER A SHORT TIME….
    He was at a party trying to give out this LSD to the other friends…AND THANK GOD WE ALL SAID NO….
    Here his parents thought he was SAFE AT A QUIET SCHOOL…and the PSYCH DEPARTMENT WAS DOING EXPERIMENTS ON HIM….KILLING HIS MIND…KILLING HIS BRAIN…DESTROYING HIM……AND HIS LIFE……
    THEY TRUSTED THAT SCHOOL TO PROTECT HIM……AND THEY …LET IN THOSE MURDERING PSYCHIATRIST….TO MURDER A MAGNIFICENT MIND…HE WAS SO BRILLIANT BEFORE AND THEY DESTROYED HIM.

    In my own family there are 12 VICTIMS OF PSYCHIATRY….and 3 are dead because of them…..Each person after only visits to a psychiatrist because of being run down or tired, OR SENT BY A MEDICAL DOCTOR BECAUSE OF A MUSCLE DISSEASE.. SO THEY COULD DEAL WITH THEIR COMING DISABILITY….or whatever, .were put on PSYCHIATRIST DRUGS…..AND EVERY ONE of them were unable to function in life….after that, unable to work or support themselves…..mental cripples…….
    One, a 25 year old boy, after 2 years on those dangerous drugs, put a gun in his mouth and shot himself in his mother’s back yard.

    PSYCHIATRY HAS A BAD RAP…..IN HISTORY…..FOR A LONG TIME……
    IT IS NOT JUST THOSE GUYS WHO SAY SO…….
    HISTORY SAYS SO…..READ HISTORY……
    SEE FOR YOURSELF!!!!
    DIG IT OUT AND FIND OUT…….AND QUIT BEING SHEEP AND QUIT DEFENDING THEM ….JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE TOLD ….BY THEM…..SO SAY THEY ARE GOOD…..WAKE UP GUYS….
    AS THE RUSSIAN LEADER SAID AFTER THE WAR…….WE WILL GET YOU FROM WITHIN…..WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT…….AND THEY HAVE

    AND YOU ALL THINK SOCIALISM IS SOOOOO GREAT…..WELL….LOOK AT UNITED NATIONS..AGENDA 21…..IT CALLS FOR …INTENSE REDUCTION OF….HUMAN POPULATION…..
    GET IT GUYS…..YOU’VE BEEN HAD….

  3. does scientology give refunds?

  4. why do you say in the section about xenu that these documents were altered? the ones i’ve seen are in l ron hubbard’s handwriting

  5. can we talk about operation snow white?

  6. why is it that on the landing page of your website you claim to be a neural party trying to find answers to these questions about scientology, and yet it is painfully obvious that you yourself are a scientologist.

  7. Wanting to ad a link for the documentation

    http://www.cchr.org/publications/

    Pat

  8. @Comment by ErroneousAssumptions on April 3, 2008 7:47 am
    >For what it’s worth:
    I’ve read the CCHR “mission statement”, and I’ve watched that entire video, which is significantly more than just those few quotes.

    >While I do believe that you, Pat, and others like you in the CCHR want to improve things by addressing the -problems- with psychiatry, there’s not really a lot of ambiguity in the term “global obliteration of psychiatry”. I would not offer to repair your house by replacing faulty supports, removing rotten drywall, etc., and then have you sign a contract for the “total obliteration of your house”. I would not claim to have “totally booby-trapped your entire domestic ecosystem”.

    >Likewise, hearing Bruce Wiseman call psychiatry a “pseudo-science” and hearing others decry it as the “Nazi science of psychiatry”, it seems like there’s at least a SEGMENT of the Scientologist/CCHR population that wants the field done away with altogether, with -perhaps- the exception of talk therapy. Would you say that is an inaccurate assessment?

    Here is what I (underlined) believe about this Mission Statement. I believe that this is the Mission of CCHR. Reform. I believe that if we get those out of Psychiatry that are trying to drug the world into submissive puppets then the parts that are using actual therapy, could help people (such as talk therapy – which is more Psychology than Psychiatry).

    In my early years as a Scientologist I saw a young man who was in Scientology (not a minor) and happy, taken by his parents to a Psychiatrist. He was given Thorazine because he fought against this. He was restrained and the last I saw him when he was released he was sitting in a wheelchair unable to make his arms and legs move and drooling. This is a known, common side effect. I think from that day, it wasn’t just drugs or the fact it was against Scientology (was an attempt to “deprogram”) but that Psychiatry felt they could do that to another human being. You won’t EVER find me sympathetic when a Psychiatrist gets jailed for rape or child molestation or insurance fraud. I won’t complain if a Psych hospital is shut down for abuse.

    Pat

  9. For what it’s worth:
    I’ve read the CCHR “mission statement”, and I’ve watched that entire video, which is significantly more than just those few quotes.

    While I do believe that you, Pat, and others like you in the CCHR want to improve things by addressing the -problems- with psychiatry, there’s not really a lot of ambiguity in the term “global obliteration of psychiatry”. I would not offer to repair your house by replacing faulty supports, removing rotten drywall, etc., and then have you sign a contract for the “total obliteration of your house”. I would not claim to have “totally booby-trapped your entire domestic ecosystem”.

    Likewise, hearing Bruce Wiseman call psychiatry a “pseudo-science” and hearing others decry it as the “Nazi science of psychiatry”, it seems like there’s at least a SEGMENT of the Scientologist/CCHR population that wants the field done away with altogether, with -perhaps- the exception of talk therapy. Would you say that is an inaccurate assessment?

  10. What does metaphor mean?

    Well, according to the old Merriam-Webster:

    1: a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in “drowning in money”); broadly : figurative language — compare simile

    The words “Global Obliteration of Psychiatry,” however, are very distinct and do not lend themselves to any sort of metaphorical meaning, unless you believe that psychiatry is its abuses, and that eliminating those will either require or result in the elimination of the entire field.

  11. @Comment by Okay I’m Anonymous Now on April 3, 2008 1:36 am
    >“It’s figurative. A metaphor.”

    >I’m sorry? How is “Global Obliteration of Psychiatry” a metaphor for anything other than the Global Obliteration of Psychiatry?

    What does metaphor mean?

    Pat

  12. “It’s figurative. A metaphor.”

    I’m sorry? How is “Global Obliteration of Psychiatry” a metaphor for anything other than the Global Obliteration of Psychiatry?

  13. @ Comment by ErroneousAssumptions on April 2, 2008 7:16 am
    >Pat –
    >First of all, I can see why that experience might sour you on psychiatry, to an extent. My original point was that one doesn’t -have- to have been personally harmed by something to stand up against it, but on the psychiatry thing:

    >I actually agree that there are abuses within the psychiatric profession that should be addressed. I’m sure we probably disagree on where those abuses begin (for instance, I do not believe that anti-depressants and other related medications are necessarily harmful, though they are perhaps over-prescribed). There are, however, abuses in -every- field, and I’m not sure that psychiatry is necessarily more prone to that than, say, nursing home attendants or dentists or lawyers or…

    >Regarding the CCHR thing, though, I believe that -you- are concerned primarily with the abuses and problems. However, I have to ask: How do you reconcile that with Miscavige’s own statements, such as:

    >“In that way, to put it bluntly, we booby-trap the whole psychiatric ecosystem.”

    >“And that’s our 2006 campaign for the Global Obliteration of Psychiatry!”

    >There are other quotes, but I’m sure you know the video I’m referring to. How do statements like that, utilizing charged language and violent imagery to discuss the “global obliteration of psychiatry”, fit in with the idea of -reforming- the profession by removing its abuses?

    Here is CCHR’s Mission statement from their site:
    “CCHR’s Mission Statement

    The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) is a non-profit public benefit organization that investigates and exposes psychiatric violations of human rights. It works shoulder-to-shoulder with like-minded groups and individuals who share a common purpose to clean up the field of mental health. It shall continue to do so until abusive and coercive practices committed under the guise of mental health are eradicated and human rights and dignity are returned to all. CCHR’s Board of Advisors, called Commissioners, include doctors, scientists, psychologists, lawyers, legislators, educators, business professionals, celebrities and civil and human rights representatives. CCHR was co-founded in 1969 by Professor Thomas Szasz, Professor of Psychiatry Emeritus, and the Church of Scientology, dedicated solely to eradicate mental health abuse.”

    I saw the event. It’s too bad that that was taken out of context. I guess whoever posted it had that in mind. Then you’d see that what was being talked about were the abuses and how they need to be handled. It’s figurative. A Metaphor.

    Pat

  14. Pat –
    First of all, I can see why that experience might sour you on psychiatry, to an extent. My original point was that one doesn’t -have- to have been personally harmed by something to stand up against it, but on the psychiatry thing:

    I actually agree that there are abuses within the psychiatric profession that should be addressed. I’m sure we probably disagree on where those abuses begin (for instance, I do not believe that anti-depressants and other related medications are necessarily harmful, though they are perhaps over-prescribed). There are, however, abuses in -every- field, and I’m not sure that psychiatry is necessarily more prone to that than, say, nursing home attendants or dentists or lawyers or…

    Regarding the CCHR thing, though, I believe that -you- are concerned primarily with the abuses and problems. However, I have to ask: How do you reconcile that with Miscavige’s own statements, such as:

    “In that way, to put it bluntly, we booby-trap the whole psychiatric ecosystem.”

    “And that’s our 2006 campaign for the Global Obliteration of Psychiatry!”

    There are other quotes, but I’m sure you know the video I’m referring to. How do statements like that, utilizing charged language and violent imagery to discuss the “global obliteration of psychiatry”, fit in with the idea of -reforming- the profession by removing its abuses?

  15. @Comment by ErroneousAssumptions on March 30, 2008 1:52 am

    I just now saw this.

    >Pat –

    >I’m sorry, but that question is irrelevant. What has psychiatry done to you, personally?
    If the answer were “nothing”, would that prevent you from protesting what you perceive to be their abuses?

    I have a personal issue due something that was done to a family member of mine. This person was accused (as a teenager of 17) of molesting a young neighbor child on the say-so of her 5 year old brother. He was forced to submit to psych treatment based on a 15 minute written questionaire that asked if he was ever depressed etc. – This resulted in a diagnosis labeling him as “manic-depressive” and “likely to have done the crime”. After he spent 3 months in jail it came to light that the little boy had used the wrong name. That’s my personal beef. Then, you have to see the Video called Psychiatry: An Industry of Death. It shows actual clips of psychiatric treatment that are pretty gruesome with psychiatrist admitting they have no cures.

    CCHR is going after the abuse in the field of mental health. We aren’t going after Psychology. Just the inhumane treatment of Psychiatry. If you saw the clips of documented cases you likely wouldn’t be claiming we made it up. You can’t fake someone like Chisholm who used to be the head of the APA saying that they need to do a eugenics program to get rid of all the “inferior” races.

    Pat

  16. Erroneous,

    Going back up the thread, I see that I didn’t specify either of you. Still, I can see why you may have felt singled out. Happens to me all the time here, too ;p

    Pat

  17. Pat- Oh, understood. No harm, no foul, and thank you for the clarification.

    Back to, uh, whatever was going on before!

  18. Comment by ErroneousAssumptions on April 2, 2008 5:39 am
    Pat-

    No, I didn’t “attack” because you started backing up Lu’s request. Honestly, I’m fine with an exchange of questions instead of long-winded statements.

    The reason I objected is it appeared as though you were asking -only- me, in -response- to veritas, to abide by that. Veritas, on the other hand, went utterly unquestioned.

    This created a clear double-standard. Veritas posts an ill-informed rant. I respond. It’s my response that gets singled out as “inappropriate” and as “spreading propaganda”. You’ll note, in fact, that I was -very- careful to couch my statements in terms that should be acceptable. Thus, instead of saying “Scientology’s abuses”, I would say, “what critics perceive to be Scientology’s abuses”. If I were really trying to “spread propaganda”, I think I’d try to be a little less even-handed about the whole thing.

    Anyway, veritas has been addressed, so there’s really no need for further “rants” anyway.

    I meant that for both of you. I can understand tho’ how it seemed that way because I get in the habit of showing source that I’m replying to and I used the header from yours. I apologize.

    Yes, I do see that you do attempt to un-generalize these. Noted. Thanks.

    Pat

  19. Addendum: Above, it seems like I was objecting to the possibility that veritas is a Scientologist. This is not so.

    I merely object to people REPRESENTING themselves as one thing (“I’m not a Scientologist, -but-…”) when the reality is that they are pursuing a very clear and distinct agenda.

    Additionally, I think it’s a bit absurd to expect people not to respond when they’ve been insulted and denigrated in such a way, whether the attack comes from a Scientologist, someone anonymous, or an interested third party.

  20. Pat-

    No, I didn’t “attack” because you started backing up Lu’s request. Honestly, I’m fine with an exchange of questions instead of long-winded statements.

    The reason I objected is it appeared as though you were asking -only- me, in -response- to veritas, to abide by that. Veritas, on the other hand, went utterly unquestioned.

    This created a clear double-standard. Veritas posts an ill-informed rant. I respond. It’s my response that gets singled out as “inappropriate” and as “spreading propaganda”. You’ll note, in fact, that I was -very- careful to couch my statements in terms that should be acceptable. Thus, instead of saying “Scientology’s abuses”, I would say, “what critics perceive to be Scientology’s abuses”. If I were really trying to “spread propaganda”, I think I’d try to be a little less even-handed about the whole thing.

    Anyway, veritas has been addressed, so there’s really no need for further “rants” anyway.

  21. Comment by ErroneousAssumptions on April 2, 2008 3:26 am
    Pat- So, just to clarify, is it -your- site to spread -your- propaganda, or is it a site to facilitate discussion? If veritas’s statements had gone unanswered, would -that- have been acceptable, since they largely mirror the CoS party line?

    That’s just the point. This is a Scientology site. You want commiseration, go to enturb or xenutv or some other rant site.

    It was very interesting that as soon as I started backing up Lu’s request about the rant statements you chose to attack. One, Lu has oked and welcomed other Scientologists to post here. Two, she herself asked you guys to stop making statements and ask some valid questions. It was her words that she wanted you to stop using questions to disguise propaganda.

    Our precept #20 of the Way to Happiness is very appropriate here: Try to treat others as you would want them to treat you. You can’t come here and complain that Anon is getting a bum rap from Scientology after you attacked the websites and carry antagonistic signs at the protests. If you come here to spread your propaganda, we don’t need to communicate to you. If you have a question, that’s a real question and not more spreading of propaganda, we can answer.

    Play nice in our sandbox or we won’t play with you anymore.

    Pat

  22. I genuinely cannot tell if you are a covert Scientologist attempting to smear Anonymous, or if you are truly a Berkley “code pink” tinfoil hat type.

    You know, the two don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

  23. Pat- So, just to clarify, is it -your- site to spread -your- propaganda, or is it a site to facilitate discussion? If veritas’s statements had gone unanswered, would -that- have been acceptable, since they largely mirror the CoS party line?

  24. Hello…

    Take this to enturb or somewhere else. Off myths. This is not your site to spread your propaganda.

    Pat

  25. Veritas-

    I genuinely cannot tell if you are a covert Scientologist attempting to smear Anonymous, or if you are truly a Berkley “code pink” tinfoil hat type. But hey, whatever, let’s address these points:

    They aren’t “my people”. I explained, -in great detail-, how there is no “group” or formalized association. Your “guilty by association” nonsense just doesn’t fly.

    Also, yeah, keep on dreaming about what would happen if the people currently protesting Scientology were to protest the ongoing military conflict. I would place a bet for pretty much any stakes you wanted that your vision of what would happen is completely and utterly wrong. Look at how astoundingly effective those anti-war protests that have already occurred were. Look at how much effect on policy they had.

    I’m…completely baffled as to how you make the leap in “logic” from “anonymous individuals” to “it must be the work of some shadowy mastermind”. You know why people remain anonymous? Because there’s a history of critics being followed, harassed, and sued. Voila. There’s your mystery solved. “Sectarian and racial infighting”? Please. We’re not talking about blood running in the streets as legions of angry Christians assault every mosque in town. We’re talking about a group of people trying to call attention to what they perceive to be the -abuses- of a particular group. If you were to look with a -genuine-, critical eye, you would see that the amount of material out there with a “Christian” bent is a vanishingly small minority compared to those things that focus on disconnection, alleged abuses in the Sea Org, the RPF, fraud, etc.

    When I said the media gives Scientology a free pass, I didn’t mean that they’re never critical. What I meant is, their attitude is either:
    A: They don’t talk about it
    OR
    B: It’s that “kooky Hollywood religion”

    Neither of those does anything to address the concerns that critics have. You’ll note that in those instances when the media DOES attempt to do that, they get sued (Time Magazine) or harassed (the BBC). The fact that you use terms like “literally drip venom” shows me that, aside from not understanding what “literally” means, you -do- have an agenda entering into this whole thing.

    Finally…If it were traced to any active anti-CoS protesters…what? Finish that sentence. What? What would that mean? If a Scientologist were found today that ate babies, but the rest of the church denounced him, would you say “OMG ALL SCIENTOLOGISTS EAT BABIES!!111!!one!” ?

  26. Your people condemn themselves by there own actions which I find disturbing, thats my opinion for what its worth and I stick by my observations.

    Actually if everyone as you say was protesting, the military, congress, bush and the whole crooked lot would have no place to turn. Just as an example imagine every recruiter being booted from college campuses until the illegal occupation is ended, though as I say you anonymous types would rather devote your time to rage against religious groups. If you waste your time trying to look cool I can only pity those who shrug of real issues like the war(s).

    Another point is that your whole anonymous cover, leads me to suspect that most of you are being duped by some sort of provacteur who for one reason or another wants there to be anti-scientology sentiments increase. Did you ever stop to think who truly benefits from sectarian and racial infighting and that you may be unwitting chess pieces?

    And I do think and have seen on youtube and in some anti-scientology pieces a strong christian voice vocal throughout, mayhaps you are not but I think at the least its a ‘large majority’.

    I completely disagree with you saying the media gives scientolgy a free pass, I find this laughable, every single story from the media is awash with words like cultist etc… Whether netbased or tele. This site is one of the bare few that seems to want to talk openly as compared to the sites that literally drip venom on lrh(I have been to clambake/xenu and read numerous hit pieces which is why I’m mainly here to ask for the opposing viewpoint as I’m interested somewhat in LRH/scientology)

    And as for the epilepsy bit If its traced to any active anti-Cos protesters, well…

  27. veritas: Take your trolling elsewhere, please.

  28. Veritas- Oh, please. You say you’ve been “studying” the situation, but it’s abundantly clear that you’ve done very little actual research. There are -numerous- documented cases of abuses, though granted, the vast majority are not -fatal-; they are merely highly damaging.

    “Wastrels”? Nice. “Sectarian hatred”? No, clearly you don’t have any agenda here at all.
    First of all, that “Why are you protesting X? Situation Y is so much worse!” argument is specious and shallow. But hey, let’s accept your ridiculous premise for a second.

    If…IF…all of these people protested the war in Iraq, what would the outcome be? I’ll tell you: Nothing. This is an administration that has demonstrated a complete unwillingness to change its plans based on popular outcry. Protesting the war would be so much pissing into the wind, at this point. But hey, since YOU say that’s what people should do, clearly they should do it.

    Have you read ANYTHING on this subject? Have you looked at ANY sites that do anything but advance the CoS party line? Are you really, as you imply, an interested third party, or are you someone with an existing bias?

    Oh, and for what it’s worth: The “anger” in “Anonymous”, insofar as there even -is- such a “group”, has nothing to do with Christianity or religious conflict. It has EVERYTHING to do with what people perceive to be the abuses of an organization that operates in a manner not unlike that of an organized crime syndicate while getting a total pass from both the authorities and the media. No, no, it’s easier for you to try to pass it off as “sectarian hatred”, though, because that keeps you from having to look at the actual causes, doesn’t it?

    The video served to draw attention to the subject, but I can guarantee you that 99% of this has nothing to do with that video and everything to do with what people found out after the video inspired them to do a little research on their own.

    As for the epilepsy thing? Please. This, to me, is just -proof- that you never had any interest in an actual objective study of the situation. I’m a sucker for lost causes, though, so let me summarize:

    Anyone who acts Anonymously on the internet is “Anonymous”. The fact that “anonymous” people screwed with an epilepsy forum (which is pretty awful, no one denies) does not make them any more connected to the “anonymous” individuals protesting Scientology than it does the “anonymous” individual who first told the story of Beowulf.

  29. wtf? I just went to google news and they(anonymous) are attacking epilepsy sites!!! despicable!

  30. I am studying the anonymous situation and have observed on of the local protests, and these are my conclusions on ‘them’.
    One they seem to enjoy preening in rebel-esque clothing, like masks,movie costumes,robes and the like. The fact that they wear masks is cowardly I believe, it would be a different story if they were protesting something actually dangerous such as the CIA for example which leads into my other point that these net hippies are incredibly dense or just plain stupid to hold of signs that say scientology kills, and they have very few “documented” cases of this, then they start chanting the names of people they never knew.
    You wastrels want to take on real killers, how about Bush/congress and the military industrial complex thats behind the hundreds of thousands of deaths in the middle east?oh but I guess its not hip anymore to protest iraq so you’ll ferment Sectarian hatred against an org based on it being either a cult or profiteering venture(or both)

    A lot of anger in anonymous is tied to christians who seems to have a major problem with anyone denying the divinity of jesus or threatening their beloved christian values.
    And a video being taken off the net is what gets you people pissed? How about child slavery in iraq that our government turns a blind eye to? Why doesnt that make you hopping mad? I know what and its because your cowards looking for a soft target to intimidate as a group, a pack mentality of foolish pawns is what I believe anonymous to be.

  31. (edit: Ugh, it submitted before I was done)

    From above: My point is, one need not have been personally harmed in a tangible, actionable way by something in order for that person to find the thing objectionable or worth fighting against.

  32. Louanne-
    Okay, I can accept that that’s what you believe. Obviously I disagree, but let’s take your assertion as a given.

    Psychiatry has established the -potential- for it to affect you negatively. -Has- it? Have you ever -been- around one of those “drugged patients” when they flew off the handle?

  33. Not bigotry. Documented evidence.

    As “documented” by CCHR, a known Scientology front. In other words, the Church(TM) says psychiatry is harmful because the Church(TM) says psychiatry is harmful. Get some more unbiased sources to back up your claims, if you can.

  34. @Comment by ErroneousAssumptions on March 30, 2008 1:52 am

    Psychiatry in its current form makes life unsafe. Go sit next to a drugged “patient” in the subway, who is having uncontrolled spasm because of the drugs side effects. This person is not happy either. Thanks, psychiatry, for this “product”. Psychiatry, IMHO, is making this world a very unsafe and dangerous place. They claim to help but in reality destroy lives.

    – Louanne

    PS: Yes, there are exceptions to the rule. But far too few.

  35. Pat –

    I’m sorry, but that question is irrelevant. What has psychiatry done to you, personally?
    If the answer were “nothing”, would that prevent you from protesting what you perceive to be their abuses?

  36. Comment by Tony Meman on March 28, 2008 12:32 pm

    Redundant, isn’t it? That is what started this subject between John and I to begin with.

    You didn’t answer my question. What did Scientology do to YOU?

    Pat

  37. @Comment by John on March 24, 2008 7:00 pm
    >Why does scientology wish to suppress my personal freedom in the choice to see a psychiatrist over a scientologist?

    Scientology reference?

    Pat

    Well, in 2007 David Miscavige called for the “Global Obliteration” of psychiatry.

    That’s kind of a clue…

  38. So, at the moment, after viewing the information available to me. There are some practices used by psyciatrists that I disagree with. I also agree that overmedication is an issue that we as a society need to confront. However, I believe that psychiatrists have a net positive effect on society.

    This puts me in conflict with the Church of Scientology as they wish to eradicate psychiatry. If I stand up and say I do not want psychiatry eliminated then I am suppressing scientologists as I am stopping them from following the scriptures? But by removing psychiatry as an option for me they are suppressing me?

    Where should I stand on this?

  39. @Comment by John on March 26, 2008 9:36 pm
    >Should I, as an individual, not have the opportunity to view all available information and decide for myself whether or not to seek the advice of psychiatrists?

    You most definitely should view all available information. Absolutely.

    Knowledge gives you control.

    Pat

  40. Nice dance, please answer the question though ;)

  41. @Comment by John on March 26, 2008 9:36 pm

    “Should I, as an individual, not have the opportunity to view all available information and decide for myself whether or not to seek the advice of psychiatrists?”

    Well, go see one while it’s not too late ;-)

  42. Should I, as an individual, not have the opportunity to view all available information and decide for myself whether or not to seek the advice of psychiatrists?

  43. “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibgWmZHP8F4”
    Whoa. Good find. Disturbing vid is disturbing.

  44. “In other words, he didn’t actually say he was unconvinced you were a threat, just that it belonged in the hands of law enforcement rather than injunction.”

    But it is precisely because he was unconvinced that we are dangerous that he referred the matter to law enforcement. Judges are hard to convince; that’s their job. And since the Church(TM) offered zero evidence that the greater Anonymous movement incited those threats, he was given no reason to even suppose that Anonymous is harmful.

  45. @Comment by John on March 25, 2008 4:56 am
    >“And that’s our 2006 campaign for the Global Obliteration of Psychiatry!”
    – David Miscavige, New Years speech 2007

    >Obliteration of psychiatry, thus taking away my freedom to choose psychiatry over scientology.

    >This is nothing more than bigotry against psychiatry.

    http://www.cchr.org/index/7352/
    http://www(dot)cchr(dot)org/school_shootings/index(dot)html
    http://www(dot)cchr(dot)org/professionals(dot)html
    http://www(dot)cchr(dot)org/video/
    http://www(dot)cchr(dot)org/index/5276/6608/

    Not bigotry. Documented evidence

    Pat

  46. Here’s the whole video if you’re interested; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibgWmZHP8F4

    This is nothing more than bigotry against psychiatry.

  47. “And that’s our 2006 campaign for the Global Obliteration of Psychiatry!”
    – David Miscavige, New Years speech 2007

    Obliteration of psychiatry, thus taking away my freedom to choose psychiatry over scientology.

  48. >Follow-up question: Why, in that injunction, did the church include two incidents of actual violence that occurred -several years ago-, with no connection to Anon, and were in fact carried about by Scientologists? Why did the church -omit- those facts from the filing, making it seem as if it intended to group those actions with the alleged bomb threats? From my position, that seems…dishonest, at best.

    Nope, perfectly legal. It shows predisposition to believe the threats to life were actual, due to prior threats.

    But, he did rightly say it belongs in the hands of law enforcement now, which is exactly where it is now.

    Pat

  49. @Comment by Okay I’m Anonymous Now on March 25, 2008 3:12 am
    >“Where does he say he was unconvinced you weren’t a threat?”
    From http://media.tbo.com/photos/trib/2008/mar/031308doc.pdf :

    >Here, as alleged in the Petition, there appears to be a number of individuals who more or less refer to their cause as “Anonymous”, but there is no allegation of the existence of any organization or hierarchy of command that exercises any form of collective or coordinated action that results in the systematic deprivation of the Petitioner’s rights. Under these circumstances, when threats from unknown individuals are received, or when incidents such as the various YouTube or MySpace postings are interpreted as threatening, the matter is more properly one for legal law enforcement rather than the constitutionally extreme remedy sought by injunction without notice against these individuals.

    >In other words, even assuming that individual Anons pose a threat, it cannot be inferred that the Anonymous movement itself is dangerous, and the Church(TM) was unable to provide any evidence to that end.

    In other words, he didn’t actually say he was unconvinced you were a threat, just that it belonged in the hands of law enforcement rather than injunction.

    Pat

  50. Pat-
    “This court is mindful of the anxiety that may be caused by anonymous threats of violence, or as a series of seemingly unconnected incidents, be they on the Internet or otherwise,” Baird wrote. “However, the jurisdiction of the court must only be exercised to specifically restrain those known individuals that are shown to have some reasonable nexus to the actual threats complained of in the petition.”

    “May be caused by anonymous threats of violence”
    “series of seemingly unconnected incidents”

    He doesn’t say that there is no threat, but neither does he accept the church’s claim that any alleged threats are from “Anonymous”.

    And yeah, he’s right. You can’t get an injunction against “Anonymous”, nor could the church show -any- evidence that the named individuals had any links to threats or illegal actions.

    My question stands, though: Why does the website mention the injunction but fail to mention those pretty critical facts?

    Follow-up question: Why, in that injunction, did the church include two incidents of actual violence that occurred -several years ago-, with no connection to Anon, and were in fact carried about by Scientologists? Why did the church -omit- those facts from the filing, making it seem as if it intended to group those actions with the alleged bomb threats? From my position, that seems…dishonest, at best.

  51. “Where does he say he was unconvinced you weren’t a threat?”
    From http://media.tbo.com/photos/trib/2008/mar/031308doc.pdf :

    Here, as alleged in the Petition, there appears to be a number of individuals who more or less refer to their cause as “Anonymous”, but there is no allegation of the existence of any organization or hierarchy of command that exercises any form of collective or coordinated action that results in the systematic deprivation of the Petitioner’s rights. Under these circumstances, when threats from unknown individuals are received, or when incidents such as the various YouTube or MySpace postings are interpreted as threatening, the matter is more properly one for legal law enforcement rather than the constitutionally extreme remedy sought by injunction without notice against these individuals.

    In other words, even assuming that individual Anons pose a threat, it cannot be inferred that the Anonymous movement itself is dangerous, and the Church(TM) was unable to provide any evidence to that end.

  52. errata
    “weren’t” not “weret”.

  53. @ Comment by ErroneousAssumptions on March 24, 2008 5:55 pm
    >I suppose I should include a question here. Ah, here’s one.
    Why is it that, in your section on Anonymous, you mention the injunction filed by the CoS, yet fail to mention that the courts rejected it TWICE, once on the basis of the type of injunction being filed, and once based on the fact that the court was unconvinced by the CoS’s arguments that “Anonymous” presented an actual threat?

    On first one, correct. On the second I could have sworn that he said he denied it because it wasn’t on specific people to be restrained. Where does he say he was unconvinced you weret a threat?

    Pat

  54. @Comment by John on March 24, 2008 7:00 pm
    >Why does scientology wish to suppress my personal freedom in the choice to see a psychiatrist over a scientologist?

    Scientology reference?

    Pat

  55. Why does scientology wish to suppress my personal freedom in the choice to see a psychiatrist over a scientologist?

  56. I think it pretty much goes without saying, but I should state one more time how laughable and skewed that video is. I mean, really.

    As for the Sean Carasov thing, Louanne, you’re simply incorrect. He posted that he would shoot anyone who came and broke into his house. Now, if you’re conflating that with “Scientologists” for some reason, it would perhaps be interesting to examine why.

    I suppose I should include a question here. Ah, here’s one.
    Why is it that, in your section on Anonymous, you mention the injunction filed by the CoS, yet fail to mention that the courts rejected it TWICE, once on the basis of the type of injunction being filed, and once based on the fact that the court was unconvinced by the CoS’s arguments that “Anonymous” presented an actual threat?


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