This guy rocks!

I like free music too, but “free” and “stolen” are just not the same…

From: Fox News

Gene Simmons may want to “rock and roll all night” — but if he keeps fighting with 4chan, his websites won’t last that long.

The famed KISS frontman refuses to back down in a feud with the notoriously nasty online community 4chan, after his websites and fell victim to fresh hacker attacks.

“Some of you may have heard of a few popcorn farts re: our sites being threatened by hackers,” wrote Simmons on his website.

Simmons brushed off the attacks while firing off a stern warning to the online vigilantes. “Our legal team and the FBI have been on the case and we have found a few, shall we say ‘adventurous’ young people, who feel they are above the law.” …


  1. Apologies for all the typos. I’m sure you can make it out.

  2. On a related note, you claim that you “do what I can to make sure that others see the actual source so they can decide for themselves what is true and what isn’t”

    I humbly request that you tell me what you do to that end, so I night better meet your communication needs. Perhaps you could show us an example of you doing so? I can’t seem to find one.

  3. No, it’s not wrong of you to question my sources and comments. To be honest, that’s a great improvement of your previous tactic Of avoided them by disappearing for weeks at a time, later coming back and pretending that certain points were never made. I’m actually quite impressed.

    No, I don’t fault you for questions, nor solid I eve say that I did. I was quite clear in saying that it was the hypocrisy that I objected to, that you of all people would demand dox from someone, accusing them of deception, when I’ve personally given you four examples of you doing the very thing you’re accusing me of. You accuse me of refusing tonorovide sources? Of deception? Fond me one example. Better yet, find me four, like I did for you.

    And, for some reason, you keel accusing me of failing to provide sources in this thread. I gave you the news article, case info, and invited you to call the court yourself, which I’m sure you didn’t do, if you don’t want to take my word for it. What more do you need to support a very unimportant derail?

    And, yes, it is as minor and unimportant as it is supported. You see, a minor point is one upon which the thesis does not depend. In this case, the thesis is that police and courts place a much higher priority on the murders, theft, etc committed by scientologists than the misdemeanors committed by punk kids. The amount of the anticipated settlement is not in any way important to that fact. Yet, you cling to it rather than touch the main point, just like last time. Have you ever participated, out of curiosity, in a formal debate?

    So, pat, you have my references and the means to verify them. Are you able to discuss the rest of the point, or shall we just try another conversation in two weeks? Entirely up to you.

  4. Comment by Big daddy on November 26, 2010 8:19 am

    You and I have different viewpoints on what is a “minor” point. Any generality misinformation or allegation from you or yours, I see as an attempt to manipulate others.

    You can assert how “wrong” I am to question your sources and asking for specifics but I won’t change. It’s not minor to me. If you don’t like it you’re free to go bye bye.

    I see the deception you and your fellows are trying to perpetrate and will do what I can to make sure that others see the actual source so they can decide for themselves what is true and what isn’t. This is my viewpoint and is not debatable. Go ahead and critique me as usual. I choose to not play your game.



  5. Tintype= within
    Also, you state your allegation against me twice in your same posting. Eagerly awaiting your clarification.

  6. Pat,
    Do you have any hint of my overall point? This gives me Deja vu, where you can’t see my stated point, once again being tied up with a very minor point. Is that because you can’t see the point or because, like last time, you can’t address it?
    It’s clear by your statement that your frame of reference is limited tintype conversation, which is the only reason I can imagine that you thought I was asking you for Dox relating to this discussion. But I was not. You haven’t made any points yet, so there would be nothing to document. No, pat, I was noting the irony in you demanding fox, when I have asked you for the same many times before, and you had not lived up to the standard you place on me. Unless, for example, you provided the information (that it was your own idea to provide, recall) on the benefits of criminon? I mean, if you can’t, that’s fine. Just say so, and even address the other examples of the same thing that I listed before. Heck, if you can’t do it, be honest about it and we won’t speak of it again. In the meantime, I invite you to adopt the standard you force on me.
    And, for me, I subscribe to the general rules for debate. You’ll find that I’ve provided you the court information, where you can see one of the examples of a cos entity being the defendant in this matter. There’s several more, feel free to call the courts if you wish, like I did to get the information. I also provided a link showing the difference in the tainted money donated versus the amount given back. So, dox provided. Your turn.
    But, I must ask: you accuse me of “once again” making “allegations wothout documentation”. But I provided documentation. And, your own allegation as to my action implies that you feel that I have done so before? When? You’re accusing me of something- can YOU back it up? Or is this an addition to the list that I’ve already provided to you, where you will make a claim and never back it ip?
    If you can’t, then with all due respect, I’ll most likely wait for louanne to doscuss this item further, for reasons that are surely clear.

  7. Comment by BigDaddy on November 24, 2010 8:52 pm

    I routinely ask you for documentation as you make allegations that aren’t backed up.

    I do not need to provide you with any documents as I’m not the one making the allegations.

    As for this one, I still can’t find any source reference for the $350,000 that “Scientology agreed to pay” or that all of the amounts donated are “ill-gotten”.

    Again, you’re making allegations without documentation.


  8. This dentist isn’t the first criminal scientologist, of course. There’s a lot of them. The question is are criminals attracted to scientology? Or Do these people become criminals after they join scientology and are pressured to give more, do more.
    Of course, Dr Piedra is a good example. He was working hard, but honestly. As he stole more, he gave more the scientology. Oddly enough, he was recognized by WISE, int, as a model example of business operations.
    There’s Rex Fowler. He had to apologize to his employees for taking money and giving it to scientology. He also shot one of his former employees.
    What about Scott W. Snow? He was among the elite of the OTs, higher than Tom Cruise. But, he was turning a profit at other’s expense by operating a slum.
    Earthlink co-founder and Scientology minister Reed Slatkin? Found guilty of mail fraud, wire fraud, money laundering and obstruction of justice after perpetrating the largest ponzi scheme in the US since Charles Ponzi himself. He funneled millions of dollars to scientology.
    And, of course, there’s Hubbard’s wife, convicted felon.
    Those are just a few of the most well-known examples. I can’t see any other cases of people commiting major crimes- felonies even- in order to give the money to a particular group. To Pat’s point, how many red cross employees or members are stealing millions of dollars from others to donate it to the red cross? in fact, can you find a single non-criminal entity (mafia, etc) in which its members are stealing money to profit the group? For some reason, it’s only scientologists that feel the need to steal money from others and give money to scientology. And the rewards are great for doing so- recognition, prestige, and the ability to move up the bridge, which you really can’t do without money. Those without money have a choice- come up with the money, somehow, or be unable to reach the higher OT levels. What other choices do they have??
    Is it any surprise, then, that such a “pay for enlightenment” structure is linked to a rise in crime?

  9. For the record:

    10-3109 ap Mukamal VS Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization, I
    08-17533 Rene Piedra DMD And Associates, P.A.
    Pretrial Conference. Adversary case 10-03109. Complaint by Barry A Mukamal against Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization, Inc.. Filing Fee Paid. Nature of Suit:,(13 (Recovery of money/property – 548 fraudulent
    transfer)) (Attachments: # (1) Exhibit A) (1)
    Barry A Mukamal – pla Frank Terzo aty
    Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization, Inc. – def

    This measure will be halted if the creditors accept the offer for a partial sum, They may, as it’s easier and faster than going through a lengthy court battle.

  10. But, overall, you miss my point.
    My point was comparing the police response (and priority) of the minor crimes of “anons” (generally, mischief) and the police response of the felonies committed by scientologists.
    Do you see that there is a difference in the police response?

  11. With all due respect, Pat, and infinite patience:
    1. The red cross does not have a history of accepting and keeping ill-gotten gains. For some reason, people just aren’t committing major crimes to steal money for the red cross. However, for scientology, people are committing very major crimes and donating huge sums of money with the proceeds. Recall that scientology kept the funds that were linked with the murder of the US military vet on his child’s birthday- how much more ill-gotten can you get?
    2. I really don’t see how you feel that you can demand documents and links from me, when you routinely fail to deliver yourself. Then, you will dissapear for weeks at a time, coming back as if you had never left. In other words, I always work to provide docs when you demand it. Hold yourself to your own standard, if you’ll be making such demands. Or had you forgotten the multiple items that you promised, and failed, to deliver?
    But, my personal integrity causes me to back up my claims.
    Information on the settlement (or, you can call it, “agreement”, if you’d like)
    Question for you- why is scientology keeping most of the money? Also, settlements are generally not a matter of public record- very good reason to pursue such a thing.

  12. Comment by Big daddy on November 24, 2010 7:32 pm

    “So, If Scientology doesn’t want to keep illegally-acquired funds, why is it keeping over half of them?”

    More innuendo, BD. At what point would a charity, such as the Red Cross, question if someone donating $50,000 was “legal”? As Louanne correctly points out Scientology was not the person / entity declaring bankruptcy and thus placing disposition of it’s funds in the hands of the Trustee. So far, there are only allegations and spin of “transferring” rather than the donations of what this individual should have kept in an escrow account. At no time, would the Church entities have had any legal requirement to check for the “legality” of the funds this individual donated.legally. There was no “settlement”.

    Please give me the link that says there was?


  13. And, by the way, settling generally keeps embarrassing legal matters oout of the public record, and may allow the profiting entity to keep some oc the stolen funds.

  14. Do you realize how rude that sounded?
    Anyways, I’ll stick to the subject. You should research a bit. Bankrupcy proceedings are a civil (court) matter. Ad in a court matter, settlements may be made. In such cases, the courts will attempt to return funds to the debtors. It’s very simple.
    So, If Scientology doesn’t want to keep illegally-acquired funds, why is it keeping over half of them?

  15. “Comment by Big daddy on November 24, 2010 4:53 pm
    Your question is a non sequiter, and inconsistent with my statement.
    Do you acknowledge that Scientology is indeed settling out of court for $350,000”

    Come one, you are not that dumb….. The Church of Scientology is not even a defendant in the case, so how do they “settle” something “out of court”. They voluntarily pay back funds that they now know were tainted.

    – L

  16. Your question is a non sequiter, and inconsistent with my statement.
    Do you acknowledge that Scientology is indeed settling out of court for $350,000

  17. Comment by BigDaddy on November 21, 2010 11:08 am

    “Scientology is being forced to repay the stolen funds. They’re not, of course, doing it because it’s the right thing, but because that is among the terms of the settlement.”

    Link please to the court docs. i can’t find anything at this point beyond allegations that the Church did anything wrong.


  18. It really depends, too, on how seriously the police take the crime. For example, a minor crime involving teenagers, it can easily take a year to move forward. Really, they only push forward because the person who may have lost some business wants them to, deciding to press charges.
    However, compare that to a very serious crime, in which the police move very quickly. For example, recently Scientologist Dentist Dr. Rene Piedra was arrested for scamming millions of dollars from patients, turning over almost a million dollars of his ill-gotten gains to scientology entities.
    However, unlike Rex Fowler murder case, Scientology is being forced to repay the stolen funds. They’re not, of course, doing it because it’s the right thing, but because that is among the terms of the settlement.
    Point being, when some kids try to mess with a website, the police don’t seem to be too concerned. They have actual crimes to focus on, like countless people scammed out of their hard earned money by a scientologist. Even those that told him ahead of time that money was tight- he was happy to arrange for credit loans on their behalf.
    I’m curious, Louanne- what do YOU think should happen to this man?

  19. You mean like the meme of being “anonymous” on the internet that you keep confusing with an actual organization? (j/k too, playin’!)

  20. Anon, you know what a meme is? (j/k)

    – L

  21. Only 2 Scientology/DDOS Anons got busted though.
    What about the other 9000 who participated?

  22. Well, we shall see, I suppose.
    Funny, I never thought gene Simmons would turn out to be all about the money- he used to be a rebel. Oh, well- childhood heroes, right?

  23. It took a year or so until the Scientology/DDOS Anons got busted and I don’t think that this case is any faster.

    – L

  24. Oh, I see- do’ this post has nothing to do with Scientology or it’s critics. It’s just about people who visit a particular image board, whom you don’t like? That’s cool, just making sure.
    I’m not sure, though, how he kicked anyone “in the balls”. If you’ve noticed, his comments are quite widely ridiculed. It’s been a month… Any arrests?

  25. He kicked Anons in the balls, that’s what makes me a fan of him! I don’t think he is a member of the Church of Scientology.

    – L

  26. Just to revisit, did we ever establish what this had to do with Scientology?
    Is gene Simmons a scientologist?

  27. I can’t BELIEVE you guys don’t see the connection between this story and Scientology! Simmons said:

    “Make sure your brand is protected. Make sure there are no incursions. Be litigious. Sue everybody. Take their homes, their cars”

    And also of the hackers that attacked his site:

    “… As stated in my MIPCOM speech, we will sue their pants off,”
    “First, they will be punished. Second, they might find their little butts in jail, right next to someone who’s been there for years and is looking for a new girlfriend. We will soon be printing their names and pictures. We will find you. You cannot hide. Stay tuned.”

    Promises of lawsuits? Hoping to see non-violent offenders placed in a dangerous environment? Public exposes of enemies? Happy to see lives destroyed for non-violent offenses and never seeing the need to show compassion or forgiveness?

    The most litigious church in history has found a kindred spirit!

  28. That’s very funny, pat! Thank you for sharing that.

  29. Louanne,

    I think the link I posted in suggestions applies here as well. LOL


  30. I did, in many different papers. And I dint see Scientology or it’s many critics discussed anywhere.

  31. Read the article.

  32. What does this have to do with Scientology?

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