Damn, I missed a date!

When Anonymous (remember: those ratbags that prey on people they think are weaker than themselves) got in view of Scientologists some time ago, I went to talk to those guys – maybe a dozen of them in all. I found them uniformly dumb, uninformed and only up to “enturbulate” me (whatever that means in their rat brains). In short, provocation by all means, also illegal ones, was their agenda. Our talks went nowhere and at some point I found myself listening to personal attacks and friends of mine scared by violent intimidation tactics made in Anon rat brains.

What followed was a series of prosecutions by law enforcement (some still ongoing) and several Anons got sentenced. I am very happy about that, for me, for my church and for those retards that now get some time to think over their understanding of human rights.

Now, what date did I miss? Last week “Anonymous” D. Guzner went into a 366-day reclusion to reconsider his sins. And I wanted to send him farewell wishes. Damn! Hope he’s doing alright.

28 Comments

  1. The Scientology website makes this incredible claim in regards to the criminon program:
    In 1990, a Criminon juvenile court pilot program in Butler County, Alabama found that among offenders who were exposed to the program, recidivism dropped to 2 percent, compared with 80% recidivism for those who were not involved in the program.”

    This claim is repeated in “freedom” magazine and other Scientology websites.

    However, I can find no unbiased source for this claim. Furthermore, if true, I would think that butler county would be currently using the program, but can find no evidence that this is the case.

    Do you have any thoughts on this?

  2. It’s simple enough- there is NO credible, unbiased research showing a benefit to crimonon. There is plenty of evidence showing it is, at the very least, useless, if not actually harmful. Unless Pat has any evidence to the contrary, that is.

  3. “Comment by Pat on July 16, 2010 11:13 am
    Personally, I don’t believe that jail / prison is the only answer to criminal rehabilitation. That is statistically backed up with recidvism rates. In my own research, what is and has been proven is the Criminon program, by statistics world-wide. I would like to ask Big Daddy and any one else to find (for themselves) any and all actual statistics — befores and afters for these, before going into the snide comments and attacks that usually follow this kind of post. I won’t respond to those. I am asking for actual stats, fair and balanced. I am interested to see if you are able to be objective or if you continue the bias.
    I will present my own research once I see what you’ve been able to come up.
    Yes, this is a test.
    Pat”

    pat, I was just wondering if I passed your “test”? Also, I’m eagerly waiting for you to “present (your) own research”.

  4. This issue becomes much More interesting when one starts a basic comparative analysis.
    According to a study published in Montana, a judeo-Christian prison ministry in that state saw the recidivism rate drop from the state average of 37% to 10% among program participants.
    While this could, perhaps, be simply dismissed as statistical variance, a joint study by Lamar university, duke university medical center and moorehead state university found that “very active” ( the category best matching the criminon program structure) in prison outreach ministries had a recidivism rate of only 8% among the low-risk (nonviolent) offenders.
    What, then, is the benefit of criminon?

  5. Well, since it looks like Pat’s long gone again, I’ll throw a little something out about Criminon.
    Criminon, on its website, makes the claim, “A two-year study done of our drug-rehabilitation component delivered by the Second Chance Program in Mexico showed a drop in recidivism to less than 10%.”
    However, when New Mexico commissioned a study to independently validate these claims, it was discovered that the number was actually closer to 35%.
    This is still lower than the National average of 67%, which seems to be a positive factor, until two elements are noted:
    1. Criminon was only tracking misdemeanors, whereas the National average tracks only felony convictions, which carry a much higher recidivism rate
    2. Tracking of similar prisoners from the same prison who DID NOT participate in the criminon program showed only a 27% recidivism rate, or 23% LOWER than those that participated in criminon.
    Therefor, in this particular study, the conclusion was reached that those prisoners that did not participate in criminon had lowere recidivism rates than those that did!

    It becomes difficult, if not impossible, to find a legitimate study that finds any benefit in criminon or related ventures. Any unbiased look can only find a detriment to using the program. However, then a light shines in the darkness! The Foundation for Advancements in Science and Education (FASE) published a study called “Intermediate Sanctions for Juvenile Offenders: A Utah Juvenile Court Case Study”, which is also available from the criminon website. One is encouraged to see an independent group unbiasedly evaluate criminon and actually find value in the program.
    Until you look a little bit deeper.
    Each of the four authors/researchers is a scientologist, which can be verified in many scientology publications and in the “meet a scientologist” section of the cos website. What’s more, each of them was already a scientologist when they conducted the study, shattering the illusion of impartiality and true scientific methodology. It’s even more telling when one takes a look at the “board of directors” at FASE and finds it filled with scientologists. In fact, it would appear that they are all scientologists. Finally, a quick google search of the site(“hubbard site:fasenet.org”) fully reveal the obfuscated ties to scientology.
    So, it would seem, that the only “study” that found any value in criminon was completed by scientologists, on behalf of an entity ran by scientologists, dedicated to the teachings inherent in scientology.
    Somehow, that’s less than surprising.
    What is slightly surprising is that an organization calling itself the “Foundation for Advancements in Science and Education” has no real understanding of the scientific standards of impartial analysis.

  6. And yet another post deleted.
    Someone has to tell the truth on this site. Thanks to the fact NON Scientologists are here to correct the lies.

  7. I hadn’t seen that before, about Fowler. That’s just absolutely horrible. And it’s a testament to the blind hatred that “some” people keep in their lives, that they can focus on a few misdemeanors, and use them to malign everyone that opposes them, while defending, or failing to address, the murderer in their midst! Has any scientologist spoken out against this man, who murdered a US military vet on his son’s birthday? Does anyone find that to be a problem?

  8. “Why not Scientology books? At least then he’d know what it really was instead the propaganda being spewed to incite him to commit criminal acts.”

    I really don’t understand this mindset. When an “anon” commits a misdemeanor, you absolve the individual to blame the “Internet” and the billions who are anonymous on it. However, when a scientologist commits a felony, the ones that are not involved in his crime (whether it be murder, fraud, etc) will absolve their group to place the blame solely on the individual!
    Why Is that?
    For example, you blame “anonymous” for Guzner, who do you blame for Fowler?

  9. “Why not Scientology books? At least then he’d know what it really was instead the propaganda being spewed to incite him to commit criminal acts.”

    Because even my local library got rid of all their Scientology books… Why would guzzler want them? Especially when it was Scientology that dhowed no forgiveness and no mercy?

  10. It’s hard to say, pat, your post isn’t extremely clear… What is your question, then?

  11. @Comment by BigDaddy on July 16, 2010 6:36 pm

    I didn’t ask you for Criminon’s reports.

    Read what I wrote again.

    Pat

  12. Why not Scientology books? At least then he’d know what it really was instead the propaganda being spewed to incite him to commit criminal acts.

    Pat

  13. “I am just sure that his “friends” give a shit about him now Maybe I can send him some books. Does anyone know in which prison he is currently residing? ”

    This one makes me chuckle- the corporate entity of scientology makes the decision to press charges and send him to jail (lucky for him, the judge sentenced him to the MINIMUM time possible under sentencing guidelines- not at the request of scientology of course) and told the court that it cost $119,000 to fix the damages (which is ridiculous, I think they’re getting ripped off. The judge didn’t grant the claimed amount either)- so they sent him to jail, took money from this kid- do you think that books (let me guess, on scientology?) is what he would want to receive. Don’t worry about him- he’s getting plenty of support- I know some folks that just sent him a care package and some money. He’ll be okay, his friends are still there for him.

  14. “I will present my own research once I see what you’ve been able to come up. ”

    tell you what, Pat- you win, I just can’t find anything (maybe because I didn’t look)… Why don’t you show me what you were able to find from non-biased, non-scientology sources so we can go ahead and call you the winner on this one.
    Got anything?

  15. “You don’t believe in in criminal rehabilitation, do you? ”
    I assume you’re not talking to me, because that would be very ridiculous based on what little you know of me.

  16. “Yes, this is a test.”

    Why? Scientology is the one making the claims. And when someone is making a claim AND asking for money to make it happen, is it not perfectly reasonable to ask for verification?
    Once in a while, criminon is able to find some politician that doesn’t know about scientology and pushes the program. I can’t find any non-scientologist references showing that to work well.
    Consider this- if someone comes to you and says they have a pill that will cure cancer, and they want money from you for the technology- would you pay it without asking for verification? That’s all we’re doing, asking a simple question of scientology. Sorry if that offends you.

    But there are legitimate criticisms. According to the LA times, there has never been a legitimate independant study to verify criminon’s claims. Of course, that would beed criminon to cooperate or initiate, which it has never done.

    Copypasta:
    In 1997, Judge Stephen Rushing, a Pinellas County, Florida, judge, received criticism and raised eyebrows from other judges when he began sentencing defendants to a program called “Impulse Control” that was run by Criminon. Rushing said the people running the course promised they would not try to convert anyone. However the paper noted that many critics have suggested that Criminon was being used as a recruiting tool. Rushing stated that if the program turned out to be nothing but a ploy to promote Scientology, “I owe an apology to the people I put in that program.”

    Criminon has also been criticized for promoting Scientology’s hostile view of psychiatry. A Criminon instruction manual found at California’s Corcoran Prison in 2005 instructs the supervisors who are supposed to be helping the inmates to encourage them to stop taking any psychiatric medication. “Most jails and prisons have a staff psychiatrist that goes in daily and gives dosages of various and sundry mind-altering drugs to the inmates. Most of the time this is a ploy to keep the inmates sedated so that they don’t cause trouble”, the manual stated. While Criminon claimed that this manual was “outdated”, the replacement manual still advised that if inmates seemed angry, it may be because “some of them are on psychiatric drugs and have strange side effects as a result.” Professor Stephen A. Kent said that Scientology’s goal “is to destroy psychiatry and replace it with Scientology’s own treatments. Criminon is simply one of many Scientology organizations that hope to see this goal realized.”

    In 2006, in New Mexico, government funding for the Second Chance program was cut when information on the program and its connections came to light.

  17. I don’t trust statistics that are given out by Criminon itself.

  18. I should add that this is not just about Criminon but jail / prison recidivism as well.

    Pat

  19. Personally, I don’t believe that jail / prison is the only answer to criminal rehabilitation. That is statistically backed up with recidvism rates. In my own research, what is and has been proven is the Criminon program, by statistics world-wide. I would like to ask Big Daddy and any one else to find (for themselves) any and all actual statistics — befores and afters for these, before going into the snide comments and attacks that usually follow this kind of post. I won’t respond to those. I am asking for actual stats, fair and balanced. I am interested to see if you are able to be objective or if you continue the bias.

    I will present my own research once I see what you’ve been able to come up.

    Yes, this is a test.

    Pat

  20. Maybe, but supported by the cos

  21. Yes, i guess after 1 year in jail he will never again participate in a distributed denial of service attack.
    But i also think that 1 month would have been sufficient. The degree of penalty is a bit exaggerated imho.

  22. You don’t believe in in criminal rehabilitation, do you?

    I do.

    – L

  23. “No, no, I am dead serious.”
    Far be it from me to doubt your feelings, but it seems odd that you say you care about him, after dedicating a post to him, saying “I am very happy about that, for me, for my church and for those retards that now get some time to think over their understanding of human rights” and counting him among your “those ratbags that prey on people they think are weaker than themselves”.
    Maybe you do care, maybe that’s how you show it. But don’t you think that showing compassion and forgiveness would have done far more for him than pressing charges, so that scientologists may celebrate his conviction?

  24. I am just sure that his “friends” give a shit about him now Maybe I can send him some books. Does anyone know in which prison he is currently residing?

    BTW, I think Mettenbrink is doing time now too. Where would he be?

    – L

  25. “Comment by Bigdaddy on July 14, 2010 7:46 pm
    I have to ask, do you actually care about this person, or are you just being sarcastic?”

    No, no, I am dead serious.

    – L

  26. I have to ask, do you actually care about this person, or are you just being sarcastic?
    I ask because I see a big difference in the way scientologists and anons deal with crimes. You, and other scientologists, celebrate the arrest if this young man. Due to his own actions, granted, his life is over. It will follow him for life- no government jobs, impact on his future employment. But, there’s no sympathy from scientologists. No pity. No compassion. You treat him like a conquered enemy, not as a human being. The anons seem to focus more on the Victime, that’s what drives them is the victims. The surviving family members of suicide victims. The men murdered. The targetsof fraud. The list goes on.
    Those people that you hate so much demonstrate far more human compassion then you do- why is that?

  27. Oh, another anon jailed??
    Oh, wait- that’s the same one you’ve been posting on for months? Oh, nevermind, thanks for the update to one of the very few anons to be arrested for a minor offense. What a hate filled, evil misdemeanor!
    Any word on the scientologist that was arrested for violent murder?

  28. Boy you’re really getting more and more fringe every day.

    Sounds like you went into this with a biased motivation. Nice work.


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