Defectors Say “Church of Scientology…”

Defectors…. what a nice term, try that out for size, defect-ors. Something’s not right about them.  Commonly these people are called “apostates” and they are known for inventing the most ridiculous stories about their former friends. I wrote about them earlier. But here is a new viewpoint, just ticking into my Google Alerts:

It is unfortunate that some government officials and media continue to rely on discredited apostates to justify discriminatory policies against the Church of Scientology and its members. Virtually all punitive government actions targeting Scientology in the past decades were based on unsubstantiated anecdotal testimony from disgruntled apostates. When the evidence was finally reviewed by objective government officials or judicial bodies, the Church emerged completely vindicated while the false allegations of apostates were exposed and discredited. (Author Jeff Smado links to my site, ha!)

Interesting symbiosis, and I might add that it has mostly been anti-religious governments officials (as opposed to neutral) that use those losers. So, basically, is it far-fetched to assume that someone is sponsoring “ex-Scios” for some other agenda?

– L

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40 Comments

  1. “Mr. Miscavige bears the ultimate responsibility for ensuring the standard and pure application of L. Ron Hubbard’s technologies of Dianetics and Scientology and for Keeping Scientology Working.”

    Are you saying that DM should be ensuring that the tech that’s practiced today is practiced in the same way that Hubbard did it? IN other words, will DM ever, or has he ever, altered the design of Hubbard in such a way that it’s fundamentally different than the way that Hubbard intended?

  2. Well, if you do the math, the number of people that are actively critical of scientology is actually a huge percantage, if not more than, off of those that will admit to being a part of it!! Look at it this way:

    The American REligious Identification Survey (ARIS) found 25,000 people that will admit they are scientologists. 25,000. remember that number.

    As far as critics go, exscn.net has 2,631 registered members.
    Whyweprotest has 27,512 members
    Operation Clambake MEssage Board has 65,922 membes

    Even with overlap, that’s far more people that will OPENLY criticise scientology than will admit to being a member of it.

    Just one random critical youtube video, the mocking one with southpark and the Tommy Davis interview, has had 289,111

    REgardless of the raw numbers- that’s pretty telling right there- look at how many people post for the “pro and con” side. You can easily found thousands upon thousands of those that are posting about their negative experiences with scientology, from allegations of violence, to “disconnection”- the list goes on. How many people can you find that are posting in favor? Heck, LouAnne here represents thee bulk of it, with her dozen or so blogs, most of which won’t allow comments.

    I can count about a half-dozen or so that will try to defend the group online, and they’re doing all they can to make the gorup seem positive, it’s just a losing battle.

  3. “I don’t think so, that would be an impossible.”

    so if he’s not 100% ethical, it is possible that he could act unethically, either in the past, present or the future? Not claiming that he HAS, but we agree that it’s a possibility?

  4. Pretty funny that Scientology being as small as it is has so many “defectors” eh? Tells you something right there. Many truths have come out, just not being able to prove them doesn’t make them lies.

  5. I guess that’s the very simple, very critical question, there: do scientologists consider dm to be completely, 100% ethical?

    • “2010/04/07 at 2:30pm
      I guess that’s the very simple, very critical question, there: do scientologists consider dm to be completely, 100% ethical?”

      I don’t think so, that would be an impossible.

      – L

  6. CMO Int executive Sue Wilhere told the St. Petersburg Times, “David Miscavige IS Scientology.”

    • “2010/04/06 at 6:57pm
      CMO Int executive Sue Wilhere told the St. Petersburg Times, “David Miscavige IS Scientology.””

      Yes, emotionally, for her, and for many others. But that’s not a corporate statement. What’s your point?

  7. “It sure is. Maybe you should look up “targeting”. I don’t deny valid police action against members of the Church for crimes they have committed. That happened and probably will happen again. But a black sheep are not representative for the whole organization and the majority of its members. ”

    Is David Miscavige representative for the whole Scientology organization? If you answer with “yes” now you might regret it later. Buf if you answer with “no”, maybe you will get slapped by him or one of his lackeys. So maybe you shouldn’t answer at all like you usually do.

    • “2010/04/06 at 6:52pm
      Is David Miscavige representative for the whole Scientology organization? If you answer with “yes” now you might regret it later. Buf if you answer with “no”, maybe you will get slapped by him or one of his lackeys. So maybe you shouldn’t answer at all like you usually do.”

      No, he is not representative for the whole Scientology organization, but he certainly is representing the Church of Scientology. Actually, it’s covered here: “From his position as Chairman of the Board of Religious Technology Center (RTC), Mr. Miscavige bears the ultimate responsibility for ensuring the standard and pure application of L. Ron Hubbard’s technologies of Dianetics and Scientology and for Keeping Scientology Working.” (http://www.scientology.org/david-miscavige.html).

      That’s what he does, visibly and effectively. Not liked by everybody, I understand, but who cares about that.

      -L

  8. Portland Ideal Org building up for sale. Just acquired in 2008 with donations. Think the parishioners will get their donations back? Watch to see if they use the money to buy another building for an Ideal Org or just skulk out of town with the money.

    Will Pasadena be next? How are those renos going?

    http://djcoregon.com/news/2010/03/31/church-of-scientology-selling-stevens-building-in-portland/

  9. I just have to keep reminding myself…

    1. All exScientologists are liars and

    2. All exScientologists that speak out are definitely liars…..LMFAO.

    Logic means nothing to the defending Scientologist.

  10. About two years ago I told an OT I know about the stories of the mistreatment of the Execs in the top strata of Church management. He too said it was all lies. But after enough stories came out from the likes of the former head of OSA and Marty Rathbun and many others with 30+ years “in” who corroborated the stories, he finally came to the conclusion there was something to what they said. He still loves Scientology but thinks the COB has got to go.

    So don’t believe all the stories you’ve heard. But why not trust your own eyes? Find one Ideal Org that is booming — not a pretty building, and not just crowded on the day of the grand opening when staff is shipped in to help make for pretty pictures. Find ONE that is open and crowded with Scientologists taking courses and stats that are meaningful like Clears produced or VWD auditing hours, not tremendous increases in building square footage. When you can’t find one, will you believe your own eyes then?

  11. By the way, you seen these puppies? http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/index.html
    really considering it :)

  12. Thank you, Louanne, I appreciate the advice and will check it out. They certainly look promising! Boy, with everything else I run, my battery won’t know what hit it, lol!!

  13. Oh, here is mine: http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Pro-Bluetooth-Keyboard/dp/B0030IT6AO/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268030457&sr=1-11

    I love it. But won’t work with Iphones.

    – L

  14. ” Comment by Bigdaddy on March 7, 2010 4:22 pm
    Likewise, best regards to you. Plus, it’s difficult to type on my new phone.”

    Try this: http://www.amazon.com/Rocketfish-RF-ABTKB-Bluetooth-Keyboard/dp/B001OIV90C/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268030457&sr=1-8

    Works well and the rechargeable last for at least 2 months.

    – L

  15. Side note, how does one document a hypothetical question?

  16. Pat, if you don’t like the question or cannot answer it, don’t. It was one for louanne, on her blog, under her rules.
    Don’t worry, it’s an “advanced” question.

  17. Again, here we go with “hypothetical this” and “hypothetical that”.

    It’s right in the description of this blog (top right “what’s in this blog”, that what’s needed here is documentation. Where’s that document, Big Daddy? Why do you keep posting links to opinions without proof of allegations?

    Pat

  18. Oh, no, no answer noted. Referring to question, previous, regarding two hypothetical groups, one which opposes another.

  19. Likewise, best regards to you. Plus, it’s difficult to type on my new phone.

    Requesting, please, your consideration regarding previous hypothetical.

  20. “Comment by Bigdaddy on March 7, 2010 4:12 pm
    More later, buying a new house today.
    I’ll give you time to catch up. Pretty please consider my question about the hypothetical groups, if you are able.”

    Answered in the other thread. Go buy your house. You seem to be a little preoccupied today.

    – L

  21. More later, buying a new house today.
    I’ll give you time to catch up. Pretty please consider my question about the hypothetical groups, if you are able.

  22. Wow, you really can’t answer simple questions, can you?

  23. “Comment by Bigdaddy on March 7, 2010 4:01 pm
    Louanne, who should they declare thier status to? Or they an exmember if they simply stop attending? Or if they simply start protesting? And just for the sake of clarity, how do you categorize the scientologists that kill themselves- are they exmembers or just victims?”

    That’s really lame. I defined membership. Read it again.

    – L

  24. “Comment by Bigdaddy on March 7, 2010 3:51 pm
    Where do you get your numbers? And what of those that buy a book (thus counted in member stats) but never do anything with it again? I bought a book years ago, am I a member?”

    You first.

    Where do you get your numbers?

    – L

  25. Louanne, who should they declare thier status to? Or they an exmember if they simply stop attending? Or if they simply start protesting?

    And just for the sake of clarity, how do you categorize the scientologists that kill themselves- are they exmembers or just victims?

  26. Where do you get your numbers? And what of those that buy a book (thus counted in member stats) but never do anything with it again? I bought a book years ago, am I a member?

  27. No thousands of ex mbers? You’re either fooled or lying.
    But my question is only impossible to answer because you know you can’t. You judge one portion, but know you can’t explain the others. Or do you still belive there are 8-14 million members?

    • Maybe we have a different understanding what an “ex-member” is. For me this is someone who declared their cancellation of membership. The majority of ex-members though have been kicked out by the Church so we might add them to the ex-member definition. That still does not add up to thousands.

      – L

  28. ” Comment by Anon on March 7, 2010 5:34 am
    ” Virtually all punitive government actions targeting Scientology in the past decades were based on unsubstantiated anecdotal testimony from disgruntled apostates.”
    That’s not true.”

    It sure is. Maybe you should look up “targeting”. I don’t deny valid police action against members of the Church for crimes they have committed. That happened and probably will happen again. But a black sheep are not representative for the whole organization and the majority of its members. Fixations like yours might be pathological. Get it checked out.

    – L

  29. ” Comment by Bigdaddy on March 7, 2010 10:27 am
    What, louanne, of the thousands of ex-members that do not try to effect change, not trying to sue, not going to the press; instead, what of those that are just reaching out to eachother and banding together to help eachother heal from their experiences? How does your model explain them?”

    That’s like asking me to explain the temperature of the green cheese the moon is made out of. A question impossible to answer. The moon is not made of green cheese and there are no “thousands of ex-members”.

    – L

  30. “Comment by Bigdaddy on March 7, 2010 11:50 am
    I see my error. You were referrring to this ny times article:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/us/07scientology.html
    and trying to cast doubtbon thir claims based on the fact that they left the group, as if that somehow changes their experiences. Do you also turn your back on ALL the members that leave?”

    Not at all. I am friends with some, actually. That handful of high-profile jerks are not representative for “members that left”.

    – L

  31. ” Comment by Bigdaddy on March 7, 2010 9:39 am
    Basically, louanne, you give your reasons for doubting any critic of your group, no matter their experiences. ”

    If I want to change something I talk to people who can do something about it. Not some liars. The lies might not be obvious for you because you only know one side. But knowing the internal side and seeing what stories “ex-Scios” are inventing once some years passed by since they left (and once some journalist pays them). That’s quite different. Maybe you should take the freedom to look at the other side of things. At least occasionally.

    – L

  32. I see my error. You were referrring to this ny times article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/us/07scientology.html

    and trying to cast doubtbon thir claims based on the fact that they left the group, as if that somehow changes their experiences. Do you also turn your back on ALL the members that leave?

  33. By the way, louanne, was this the article that you were referring to?
    http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010/03/report-celebs-keep-scientology-afloat-while-number-defectors-grows

  34. What, louanne, of the thousands of ex-members that do not try to effect change, not trying to sue, not going to the press; instead, what of those that are just reaching out to eachother and banding together to help eachother heal from their experiences? How does your model explain them?

  35. Basically, louanne, you give your reasons for doubting any critic of your group, no matter their experiences. That’s your choice, but by blindly opposing any change, you’re betraying those that need your help. Maybe there’s a lot, maybe a few, but you’re hurting them.

  36. ” Virtually all punitive government actions targeting Scientology in the past decades were based on unsubstantiated anecdotal testimony from disgruntled apostates.”

    That’s not true.
    The FBI raids in the 70’s were prompted by nothing else than Co$ criminal behaviour and the documents that were discovered during these raids show that beyond any doubt.
    May i remind you of
    Operation Snowwhite
    Operation Freakout
    Operation Normandy
    ?


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