“Anonymous” and the ScientologyMyths website

# Comment by hostile on February 16, 2008 8:34 pm

why does the “anonymous” link not say anything about anonymous?

Answer:

There is not much to say about Anonymous right now. Wait until the first ones are in jail for their criminal activities, bomb threats and anthrax scares. That’s a story then. I have done interviews with Scientologists who actually got threatened with murder and how they felt when they thought they are about to die of the hand of “Anonymous” fanatics. I also talked to innocent bystanders who got their home broken into, to scare them and only for that purpose. Maybe I put this up, maybe not. Actually you won’t have to wait long. I am learning video software right now and soon should have the first YouTube message ready. Anonymous runs an agenda to destroy the beliefs of Scientology parishioners (I know they say that their actions are against “the Church” but this a bit dumb, isn’t it. There is no such thing as “the Church”. There are only people, with jobs and family, like anyone else, whose live is made miserable by a group of criminals. And I am not talking about the geeks living in the basement of their parents home, running a DDOS script. And not about those with a mask in front of Church buildings, who think it is courageous to crack jokes about members of of a religious minority. I am talking about those who manipulated them to do it).

– Lou

57 Comments

  1. @Comment by anmn on February 22, 2008 9:26 pm

    I am closing this thread because it is very mixed and has exceeded any original Anonymous questions and mixed that with other stuff. We’ll continue this on another page. Let me assure you that I do understand the way you think and that I have thought that way often enough when the hype was going against this or that group.
    Prejudice sets in and a certain blindness for facts occurs and – for me this is still true with Anonymous – ruthless liars take over, leading the group, pounding the group with the same disinformation over and over until it does not really matter anymore if reality matches any of the propaganda. As it is the case right now where anything “the Church” says is marked with suspicion. At this stage, otherwise normal citizens behave like lemmings, allow that they are lead against otherwise normal people who have done no wrong, not personally and not indirectly by support. With many groups such provocation would lead to war but Scientologists are strange folks, they continue to communicate despite of anything.

    It is a fact that some few Anonymous people have set out to destroy – “dismantle” – a religious group, censor them, impede their constitutional rights, all under the flag of “being right” and certainly anonymous, i.e. without taking any responsibility for their actions, hiding behind a mask. You too have been bought off by disinformation. Believe me I know how great it feels to be in a group of like-minded people, seemingly “fighting” against the “great evil”. You don’t feel the cold or the rain then. But your target was invented by somebody else, your group is held together by lies, a “virtual reality”, illusions.

    You got a chance – if you care – to find out the truth about Scientology. But this is the way of balance and looking and learning. It’s fun though and it pays off. And you will find that there are more people like that, free people.

    – Lu

  2. Hm, that’s the second time my comment in this thread disappeared. Strange. Are you requiring all comments to have questions? (That’s a question.) I posted this because I strongly disagree with your appraisal of the situation. Reposting:

    “Yeah, right. A very organized “spontaneous” movement that was. I think you were waiting for a “good reason” to launch your plan of 2007 and then came along the Cruise video.”

    Personally, I had been watching the actions of the Church of Scientology for years. I soaked up what information I could, emphasizing primary sources. I knew they were bad news, but they seemed harmless and out of the way. But when the first Anonymous video went up on Youtube, I looked deeper. And I found terrible things. I became Anonymous. I was not part of the group before, and I would decry some of their actions (past ddos, myspace, etc) if asked. I’ve seen hundreds of stories just like mine and I’m sure there are thousands more.

    Hell, the chans make fun of us now. I don’t even care if they’re trolling or plants or whatever, because this is bigger than them. Many large internet communities got involved in the last month just like me.

    As an aside, the parallels we are drawing fascinate me. Anonymous claims the CoS is bad, because of Freakout and Snow White and Lisa McPherson and dozens of other things. You claim those were renegade groups acting outside of the Church. You claim Anonymous is bad, because of ddos attacks, white powder, and personal harassment. We claim those were individuals who do not represent Anonymous.

    So, if both sides are telling the truth, how do you decide? For one thing, look at the official response to negative acts like this. When that Anonymous bomb threat went up on Youtube, I sent the FBI a tip myself. I flagged the video for removal. I also noticed that not one comment was in support of the video. There was no support on enturbulation or another forum I read, both filled with this new breed of Anonymous. That tells me that the bomb threat was not an action that can be attributed to Anonymous.

    I have seen no source outside of Scientologists themselves connecting the white powder to Anonymous. If you have one, I would like to see it.

    I acknowledge the DDOS attacks, though I took no part. I recognize that they were wrong. Mark Bunker made some very good points, and Anonymous largely agreed with him. The attacks lasted only a few days. Also, I have seen no source claiming the $500,000 damages that you mention, including everything you linked.

    What I have seen was a completely peaceful protest. The one I was at drew approximately 100 protestors in -30F windchills, most of them staying for hours. A hundred other protests drew thousands more. As far as I am aware, no Anonymous was arrested in connection with these protests. The Church of Scientology cannot make the same claim about its members.

    As far as the Church’s current actions, I see Fair Game continuing against reporters and critics. I see lies about the numbers of members in the Church. I see front groups with no training for what they are doing, using methods with no proven results, as little more than thinly-veiled recruiting mechanisms reaching out to vulnerable people.

    Note that I capitalize Church. I am referring to the organization known as the Church of Scientology. I realize it is classified as a religious or non-profit organization in many countries, but I don’t believe it should be able to hide behind this. As a ridiculous analogy, imagine the mafia of the 1920s meeting in the back of “Terry’s Happy Kitty Pet Store and Orphanage.” Why did the police raid a pet store? Why do they hate kitties?

    This is exactly my attitude towards the Church of Scientology, the Citizen’s Commission on Human Rights, and Religous Freedom Watch. None of them deserve their name, and they should not be able to hide behind it.

    I don’t hate you, Lu. I don’t hate any Scientologist. I honestly don’t care what you believe. I fully support individual choice and freedom of religion. If you can’t understand that, maybe you can’t understand this movement at all.

    Did the US court system tell every Enron mail clerk that they were bad, terrible, misled people? No. The illegal activities were carried out on a much higher level. People picketed against Enron. They did not hate the employees, but the organization and its upper management. Anonymous is doing much the same.

  3. “You are trying to mix two things which don’t mix. A Scientologist can be seen, felt, he bleeds, he talks. A member of “Anonymous” is meant to be an “ill wind”, masked, unidentified, a sick concept executed by some criminals for the harm of others.”

    I can’t see or feel YOU. Does that mean you’re not a Scientologist? What crimes have you committed that make you afraid to reveal your true identity?

    “Because nothing like this ever happened again in more than 30 years.”

    Until now, of course. The bomb threats, the white powder… they have all the marks of a false-flag operation run by the Church leadership. They came from people who don’t understand Anonymous, and the only people who don’t understand Anonymous are members of the Church of Scientology. Heck, you guys have already promised more Black PR for the March 15th protests.

    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_thread/thread/57bc5411da13aff8

    There may have been an “organizational change,” but there was never a change in policy. It’s the same concept behind the Cancellation of Fair Game letter, really. “This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP.” In other words, you’re still allowed to fair-game critics; you’re just not allowed to call it that.

  4. So what do you think of the re-releasing of the old tech(which had previously been said to be unneeded) for the low price of $5000. Thats quite a lot for about 10 or so books and however many lectures on cd.

    What do you know of RPF? Its the SeaOrgs prison labor camp.

    Nope, I don’t plan to sell the e-meter I have. I was fortunate to get it off of an ex member for around $200. My favorite part is the little sticker(that the FDA made them put on it) that says it does nothing.

    Ill post the “fixed donation” price sheet when I find the link.

  5. @Comment by NotQuiteAnonymous on February 22, 2008 7:56 pm

    “Now I can claim that the perpetrators of Operations Freakout and Snow White were genuine Scientologists following Hubbard’s instructions to the letter, and that the Church of Scientology as a whole is a criminal organization full of religious extremists who will do anything, legal or illegal, to silence opposition. And why should I believe you when you say otherwise? Because you raise your right hand and say “I promise I’m not a terrorist”? Well, if you’re a terrorist, you’ve probably been trained to lie, so I can’t trust a word that comes out of your mouth (or your fingers, as is the case online).”

    You are trying to mix two things which don’t mix. A Scientologist can be seen, felt, he bleeds, he talks. A member of “Anonymous” is meant to be an “ill wind”, masked, unidentified, a sick concept executed by some criminals for the harm of others.

    But thanks for the explanation. Is that the reason why you dug out long gone accusations and crimes done by people who died already years ago or are not active since decades, because it’s so nice and handy to produce “guilt by association” with it? Freakout and Snow White are not defensible as far as their criminal actions go. But on the other hand they are both good examples how the organizational change, disbanding the Guardian’s Office, handled the problem of criminals getting on power positions. Because nothing like this ever happened again in more than 30 years.

    – Lu

  6. @Comment by DrewSmith on February 22, 2008 7:43 pm

    “There are “fixed donations” that people have to pay for each level.”

    THAT is a lie. Where do you get this nonsense from? There are no fixed donations for each level. Why don’t you go in a church and ask there too.

    “Why does auditing cost alot of money.”

    Not a lot of money but carefully calculated to keep the church organization going and surviving, without having reserved from thousands of years of donation collection or properties inherited by late members. It Economics 1. You will have to make a little money to build and sustain an organization.

    “Why are members not allowed to sell their old e-meters to new members?”

    They are. The church however wants to ensure that they are not misused or used without proper maintenance, i.e. check of the electronics and rechargeables, because that could make it defunct and mess up people. You got one to sell?

    “What about do you think about SeaOrg members only being paid a few hundred dollars a month? ”

    It’s not up to me to decide for their lives and those dedicated Scientologists in the Sea Organization are free to decide whether they want to serve as religious workers or not. There are other religious orders which do not pay anything to their members, run farms or profitable breweries or send their members on the street to beg for food and money for all members. Different traditions and arrangements exist to make sure that the respective religion survives. The Sea Org provides room and board, training, clothing etc for free and gives some money for personal expenses.

    – Lu

  7. “That’s theory, right? The practice is different. Crimes and terror are committed in the name of “Anonymous”, face it. You might call such guys “traitors to the lulz” but they still call themselves Anonymous.”

    Lu, what you’re doing is called “guilt by association”. Let me turn your argument on its head so that you can see the problem.

    “That’s theory, right? The practice is different. Crimes and terror are committed in the name of Scientology, face it. You might call such guys ‘traitors to the tech’ but they still call themselves Scientologists.”

    See? Easy. Now I can claim that the perpetrators of Operations Freakout and Snow White were genuine Scientologists following Hubbard’s instructions to the letter, and that the Church of Scientology as a whole is a criminal organization full of religious extremists who will do anything, legal or illegal, to silence opposition. And why should I believe you when you say otherwise? Because you raise your right hand and say “I promise I’m not a terrorist”? Well, if you’re a terrorist, you’ve probably been trained to lie, so I can’t trust a word that comes out of your mouth (or your fingers, as is the case online). It’s a catch-22.

  8. There are “fixed donations” that people have to pay for each level. David Miscavige and scientology just rereleased alot of old tech for the low low price of $5000. Thats just the basics, the OT levels are even more. I can go into any curch and get a copy of the bible for free.

    Why does auditing cost alot of money. Confession in a curch is free?

    E-meters run up to $4,500 for the newest models. Why are members not allowed to sell their old e-meters to new members? Scientology has conned eBay to allow them to remove any listing of e-meters. A couple of independent studies have stated that the e-meter cant cost more than a few hundred dollars to produce. Why the outrageous mark up?

    What about do you think about SeaOrg members only being paid a few hundred dollars a month? Or that they are not able to see their except for a few hours a week if they are lucky.

    I’m not trying to be rude but the entire organization seems to be based around the philosophy of getting as much money as absolutely possible from its members.

  9. @Comment by DrewSmith on February 22, 2008 6:51 pm

    “1. Who exactly is controlling Anonymous? Is it the Germans, the Psychiatrists, the Marcabians, or is it some other unknown entity.”

    Germans: no. Psychiatrists: no. Marcabians: WTF. Some other unknown entity: maybe. I think it is just the same group of propagandists which makes a living of pounding on Scientologists. Anonymous as a body of people is just a bunch of lemmings as far as they think they have to ridicule Scientologists. I am providing the opportunity to get a balanced view. Take it.

    “2. What do you think about David Miscavige altering(squirreling) the tech? Didn’t LHR say that was not supposed to be done?”

    I think this is another propaganda spin to invalidate the religious leader of the Church of Scientology. Most of the Scientology material would not be available without his programs to recover old tapes, films and typewritten manuscripts. Lucky enough for all Scientologists he and those involved were faster than some squirrel organizations could fill the gap with rewritten and confused materials.

    “3. How can a “religion” based on communication keep its beliefs secret except to those who pay upwards of $300,000.”

    You know the answer to this “question” (statement). How do I know? You lie about Scientology though you have enough insight to ask me about “squirreling”. You know that there is no price tag in Scientology. And that there is no payment of $300,000 to read some “secret texts”. That would be odd indeed. More about that is on the website here:

    http://www.scientologymyths.info/scriptures/
    http://www.scientologymyths.info/aliens/

    – Lu

  10. @Comment by Horatio on February 22, 2008 6:59 pm

    I was typing a first answer…. but there is more to be said, give me a day or so.

    – Lu

  11. @Comment by Horatio on February 22, 2008 4:41 pm

    “Please explain Operation Snow White and Freakout. What are your thoughts on these topics?”

    I got a lot of thoughts about this, but this will take a bit to fully formulate. Freakout was a bad deed far more than 30 years ago. It was a treatment of a critic against all rules of Scientology and as far as I know the Church and Cooper separated in peace in the end. It’s a very interesting question though why this old stuff is washed up again now.

    Snow White was a legitimate letter writing and FOIA campaign in most parts of the world. Where it went off the rails totally was in the US where some staff of the old Guardian’s Office went to do illegal things. This was not part of the original “Snow White” plan (which I have read and even seen floating around online). Those guys who did it and where involved got dismissed from all and any functions, prosecuted and fined and/or jailed more than 30 years ago. The Guardian’s Office as such – mandated to care for legal, public relations and social reform matters – got disbanded completely, even in countries outside the US, to make sure that no such autonomous activities can repeat. And they haven’t since.

    – Lu

  12. …. And once again – I’d like to hear your opinion on Operation Snow White and Freakout.

  13. They were all questions. Ill restate them.

    1. Who exactly is controlling Anonymous? Is it the Germans, the Psychiatrists, the Marcabians, or is it some other unknown entity.

    2. What do you think about David Miscavige altering(squirreling) the tech? Didn’t LHR say that was not supposed to be done?

    3. How can a “religion” based on communication keep its beliefs secret except to those who pay upwards of $300,000. Sounds a lot like hypocrisy to me.

    P.S. We know the Scientologists do not worship Xe nu, but they do think he exists. Its like christians and satan.

  14. @Comment by DrewSmith on February 22, 2008 2:20 am

    “Hey Lu, Good job on avoiding the questions you don’t want to answer.”

    Blame yourself. You have not asked a question but did a load of statements. Here is your chance. What do you want to know?

    – Lu

  15. Seriously, stop avoiding difficult questions.

    Please explain Operation Snow White and Freakout. What are your thoughts on these topics?

  16. As a non-Anonymous and a non-Scientologist, that “what are your crimes” video is really creepy. She just keeps attacking and attacking. If that’s what Scientology is about, I’m staying away.

  17. A serious question here, Lu.

    If you are a church, whom do you worship?

    You see, I have a severe problem with a group masquerading as a religion without a moral code of ethics.

    There is only one reference to sin that I can find and that is a quote by L. Ron Hubbard’s son who died of suicide.

    L Ron Hubbard’s Son stated under penalty of perjury that, “The only ‘sin’ in Scientology is ‘Getting Caught’.”

  18. Hi Lu,

    Why do you discount the testimony of ex-Scientologists in your FAQ by calling them apostates and casting aspersions on their stories by saying that they cannot be trusted, and then proceed to tell us that you heard from such and such a person that Anonymous threatened them?

    Isn’t it true that someone telling you that Anonymous threatened them is no more credible than someone telling us that they were abused by the representatives of the Church of Scientology while under the auspices of that church?

    What if I told you that I knew people that had been threatened by Scientologists? How would you respond to that?

  19. @Comment by Tim on February 20, 2008 1:46 am

    “I hope most of the previous comment passes for content, however, as I wrote it up myself (including the pink elephant story. :)”

    Absolutely! I loved the pink elephant story! I hope you did not copyright it ;-)

    – Lu

  20. @Comment by Paula on February 22, 2008 2:12 am, was a statement, and got deleted.

    If you don’t want to play by the rules, or general politeness for that matter, go play somewhere else.

    https://scientologymyths.wordpress.com/faq/

    – Lu

  21. @Comment by Paula on February 22, 2008 2:29 am

    “Can you explain the decree that recently went out that Anonymous is run by The Marcabians? Who exactly is this group? What country do they live in? Where are they from?”

    Ah, Anonymous is run by Marcab! Finally all pieces come together! And there was decree, you say? Can you send me a copy? Pleeeease…

    – Lu

  22. @Comment by Ihide on February 22, 2008 2:40 am

    “Hey Lu how is it you say you are on a neutral standpoint when your are a Scientologist?”

    https://scientologymyths.wordpress.com/faq/

  23. @Comment by Anon on February 22, 2008 3:44 am

    https://scientologymyths.wordpress.com/faq/

    – Lu

  24. How far on the Bridge to Total Freedom are you?

  25. Hey Lu how is it you say you are on a neutral standpoint when your are a Scientologist?

    Because from your fanatical postings defending the CoS as hard as you are that could only mean that you are a Scientologist. Instead of looking at each response above from an impartial standpoint and evaluating the arguement of both sides, you start ranting fanatically in the defense of Scientology, and continuously put down Anon.

  26. I have a question LU, one you probably aren’t qualified to answer.

    Can you explain the decree that recently went out that Anonymous is run by The Marcabians?

    Who exactly is this group? What country do they live in? Where are they from?

  27. I’d like to hear your thoughts on “Operation Freakout” and “Operation Snow White.”

  28. I am curious how the actions of Anonymous have hampered the freedom of expression of Scientologists. Would you please share how the actions of that group have violated your ability to express yourself?

  29. Hey Lu, Good job on avoiding the questions you don’t want to answer. Especially the one about who is controlling Anonymous. just who is it anyway?

    Also,
    What do you think about David Miscavige altering(squirreling) the tech? Didn’t LHR say that was not supposed to be done?

    And,
    Any “religion” based on communication would not keep its beliefs secret. Sounds a lot like hypocrisy to me.

    “Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion.” L. Ron Hubbard

    Ron is gone, but the con goes on!

  30. @Comment by Anonnymoose on February 22, 2008 1:47 am

    “Think for yourself. Don’t let Scientology, or Anonymous for that matter, make your decisions for you.”

    That’s why this blog exists.

    – Lu

  31. @Comment by NotQuiteAnonymous on February 22, 2008 12:47 am

    Thanks! I think I understand now a bit more what the original Anonymous “group” (or better: identity) was, before it was perverted recently.

    “See, the purpose of trolling is to create drama. Drama, loosely defined, is over-reaction.”

    Sounds like a definition for “provocation” to me. Sounds like fun if the “victim” knows what is going on and can laugh too. But I stand on the other side of this game and it comes across like threat to many I know. You – “Anonymous” – think you are right in harming one’s Freedom of Expression and throwing intolerance at members of a religious group. Don’t you have something worthwhile to attack?

    “And while Anonymous will do many stupid and questionably legal things, they will NEVER do anything that ruins a potential source of lulz.”

    That’s theory, right? The practice is different. Crimes and terror are committed in the name of “Anonymous”, face it. You might call such guys “traitors to the lulz” but they still call themselves Anonymous.

    – Lu

  32. The only thing I have to say is that, from the outside, Scientology appears to be simultaneously amusing and frightening.

    There are things that the organization could do to repair this “public misconception,” but for whatever reason they choose not to. This can be for various reasons, two of which are: 1) Scientology is a scam and the leaders don’t want this fact to get out and 2) the leaders of Scientology are incompetent.

    Think for yourself. Don’t let Scientology, or Anonymous for that matter, make your decisions for you.

  33. @Comment by torchic on February 21, 2008 1:10 am

    Thanks for that. Religious communities are pretty similar. I don´t know much about the JWs finance system but I think their parishioners give a certain percentage of their income every month. Scientologists donate irregularly.

    Each Church of Scientology I visited (that might be about 60 all over the world) and the rooms or buildings of other Scientology groups (another 100 or so) have been built and renovated by volunteers, i.e. the local Scientology community, sometimes even with the help of parishioners from other areas. Most of the Church´s social programs are manned by volunteers, the Scientology Volunteer Minister Corps (about 115,000 people) has it even in the name.

    torchic, I kinda get the idea that you have not informed yourself at all about Scientology activities. It won´t harm you to look at some official websites, too. Promised ;-) They are in the link section of my site.

    – Lu

  34. Lu, just because anyone can claim to be a part of Anonymous doesn’t mean that there isn’t an actual and useful definition of what Anonymous really is. It’s the same with Scientology: anyone can claim to be a Scientologist, but there are some good indicators of whether or not someone is REALLY a Scientologist.

    That said, I can tell you for a fact that Anonymous is a fundamentally non-violent movement. Anyone who advocates physical attacks and claims to speak for Anonymous is either joking, lying, or both. This isn’t because Anonymous is particularly nice or noble. Rather, it’s because violence goes against every principle of trolling that brought Anonymous together in the first place.

    See, the purpose of trolling is to create drama. Drama, loosely defined, is over-reaction. It’s what happens when people lose their cool over trivial matters, like having their Cloudsongs stolen. The problem, then, is that violence and terrorism make drama impossible. Extreme actions aren’t lulz-worthy if they come from a legitimate fear for one’s safety. And while Anonymous will do many stupid and questionably legal things, they will NEVER do anything that ruins a potential source of lulz.

    Does this explanation help any?

  35. @Comment by Terryeo on February 21, 2008 6:33 pm

    Read the FAQ. I play by rule 1, you don’t.

    – Lu

  36. “Sorry, but producing books cost money, running buildings and staff costs money, producing DVDs and CDs cost money.”

    True… and yet the Jehovah’s Witnesses manage to do the same, but still give their material out for FREE to whoever asks for it, and often in whatever language they choose. They gave my family a whole lot of books for free, and some Thai translation version for my mum who’s not good with English.

    I’m not a JW (after all, a JW doesn’t get involved in matters such as this, they believe that they should be “no part of this world”), and no, I don’t believe in any religion either, but the JW did bring in a video about how their organisation is run, and how they manage to provide materials for free is that the members of their congregation donate some of their time to help produce books/magazines/etc. Some might take 2 weeks off work or more to volunteer. Even the local JW Congregation Hall was build by volunteers from the congregation.

    Of course, there are claims that Scientologists can’t do this because they don’t have the same numbers as a larger/older religion such as the Catholic Church. Who knows…

  37. @Comment by Tim on February 19, 2008 10:19 pm

    DDOS attacks: “I don’t see how this could have resulted in actual hardware damage in any way, since all activity takes place on servers, and no computer viruses were involved. For there to have been a damage claim of $500,000 seems to mean that not only did computers somehow spontaneously explode, but rooms were destroyed by a resulting fire as well… unless there exists some sort of insurance policy paying out figures like those in the event of induced temporary site downtime. I’d like to sign up for one of those.”

    They had to move all their computers/servers/whatever to a company called Prolexis, remember? What do you think these guys cost. I was calculating moving 1,264 domains behind a DDOS wall. Let it be $250,000, but that’s your bill if you get caught DDOSing, because without the DDOSing the protection would not been bought and the bill wouldn’t exist.

    Question for you then: How do you justify the “Anonymous” attack on MySpace last year?

    “On copyright violations: I’m not aware of any other mainstream religion that places and enforces a copyright on their religious texts. The Bible, for example, is everywhere online. Perhaps Scientology should consider a similar mode of resource sharing in order to allow people to read about their beliefs.”

    The most basic books of Scientology are free (if you look for them), and every year about a million of them get donated to public libraries. Sorry, but producing books cost money, running buildings and staff costs money, producing DVDs and CDs cost money. There is no good excuse for theft. If you don’t like the DMCA, fight the DMCA, write to Congress to get it canceled.

    “On the anthrax scare: I’m sorry for your friend, and I hope she received proper medical care.”

    She was quarantined for days but is fine now.

    “While I could point out the inconsistencies in that ‘message’ (such as the words ‘elite anonymous’, which no Anonymous, involved in this movement or not, would ever use (it’s a semi-cultural thing)), or point out that a real Anonymous would never have referred to any of their own acts as a ‘terrorist attack’, which the video’s maker does, I suppose you would find it hard to believe my perspective on things.”

    I understand what you are saying. You think the clip was put up by someone who is not really an Anonymous, using your own little made-up definition of what “Anonymous” is. My point is that there is no such thing as “Anonymous”. There are marching orders “hate attack on Scientologists” (and they still happen) and every coward gets behind a mask and starts acting. Those guys a violating my free speech and the one of other minorities. They give a sh** about what Scientology is, if it helps anybody or what. “We kill for the lulz”, is what I would not be surprised to read next.

    “- That site links to the ‘bomb threat’ video that was removed by Youtube for TOS violations since February 13th. Anons reported it barely a few hours after it first went up, and whoever put it up tried to do it again a few times, each time brought down by Anons again. FBI reports were also immediately filed by Anons in the wake of the video: http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtopic.php?t=2912

    YouTube 1 point, Anonymous 0 points. They take not even responsibility for their own group members. The only thing that could impress me is if they tracked down the crim who did it and put his arrest on YouTube.

    “- The lotsofscam.nl link is broken, by the way.”

    Yes, you could say that… there are two spaces in the URL:
    “http://www.lotsofscam.nl/YouTube – Scientologists.BombThreat.flv”

    “- anonterrorist has admitted himself that these are all parodies, presumably of the statements the CoS itself has been releasing, but the sarcasm can go over people’s heads, I suppose.”

    I can beat you over the head and call it a joke, sure. My friends might even agree, but you won’t. Because you feel the pain.

    “- Whether the protests are merely a front for ‘criminal activities’ or not, I believe most, if not all, of the 7000+ people protesting on Feb 10 were sincerely interested in the issues brought up regarding the CoS’s actions.”

    The “protests” (by the way, did I tell you that I talked to protesters and found that NONE of those I talked to, about five, did even know what Scientology is about?) are a late attempt to whitewash criminal activities. Hiring more students won’t help that.

    “- I’m also failing to make the connection between overtures of caring for Scientologists and religious bigotry.”

    The way you use “caring” in relation to Anonymous’ actions “for” Scientologists makes me shudder and take up my self-defense class again.

    – Lu

  38. Because, Lu, neither the media, nor the Church of Scientology, nor Anonymous itself have reported ANY instances of Anonymous activists being arrested and arraigned for their activities. Each of these three groups has its own incentive to report such arrests, so if they all agree that no Anonymous are in jail, then it’s probably a safe bet to say that, in fact, no Anonymous are in jail. Is that so unreasonable?

    And stop avoiding my question. Who is the Third Party? Who is “manipulating” Anonymous? Who is sponsoring this “agenda” that uses Anonymous as its “tools”? Who are the “hardcore Scientology haters” who “got the mob moving”? Declare, if thou hast understanding!

  39. @Comment by NotQuiteAnonymous on February 20, 2008 1:35 am

    “I don’t know where you get your facts, but exactly ZERO Anonymous “are now being prosecuted.”

    How do you know?

    – Lu

  40. Ah, sorry, Lu. The intent was to highlight certain passages of the text in the links, but I’ll try to cut it down from now on.

    I hope most of the previous comment passes for content, however, as I wrote it up myself (including the pink elephant story. :)

  41. Lu:

    I don’t know where you get your facts, but exactly ZERO Anonymous “are now being prosecuted.” In fact, the ONLY people who have been arrested in association with Project Chanology are the Scientologists who tried to bullbait Anonymous on 10 Feb.

    And seriously, man, who ARE these “hardcore Scientology haters” of whom you are so afraid? Who do you believe is giving Anonymous its marching orders? You don’t even have to be right. Just tell us what you think personally. It’s your blog; speak up!

  42. @Comment by Tim on February 19, 2008 10:19 pm

    As with the other answer, please don’t cut&paste pages over pages of text in here. Give the link, say what you want to say.

    I’ll respond to the content later.

    – Lu

  43. thanks for clearing that up lu

  44. lu, you still haven’t answered the question about who’s behind this “little agenda”. i’m curious…

  45. On illegal computer sabotage:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ddos#Distributed_attack has information on what a ‘DDos attack’ is.

    “The purpose, similar to malicious DoS attacks, is to (a.) rapidly consume all of the website’s allocated monthly bandwidth, after which requests for the site’s content are refused, (b.) draw the attention of the site’s host, who when faced with the constant onslaught on the entire hosting network’s resources, will usually remove the site, and/or (c.) take up all available connections and maximum throughput of the host so that would-be victims cannot access the site.”

    I don’t see how this could have resulted in actual hardware damage in any way, since all activity takes place on servers, and no computer viruses were involved. For there to have been a damage claim of $500,000 seems to mean that not only did computers somehow spontaneously explode, but rooms were destroyed by a resulting fire as well… unless there exists some sort of insurance policy paying out figures like those in the event of induced temporary site downtime. I’d like to sign up for one of those.

    On copyright violations:

    I’m not aware of any other mainstream religion that places and enforces a copyright on their religious texts. The Bible, for example, is everywhere online. Perhaps Scientology should consider a similar mode of resource sharing in order to allow people to read about their beliefs.

    On the anthrax scare:

    I’m sorry for your friend, and I hope she received proper medical care.

    The LA Times mentions that authorities have found no connection between the white powder mailing and the DDos attacks:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-threat31jan31,1,6115546.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

    And no reports have been released to date regarding the identity of the culprit. However, it is perfectly possible that someone acting in the name of Anonymous was responsible, and I for one sincerely await his arrest and incarceration. You will find that Anonymous today seems to share similar sentiments.

    On murder and bomb threats:

    – That site links to the ‘bomb threat’ video that was removed by Youtube for TOS violations since February 13th. Anons reported it barely a few hours after it first went up, and whoever put it up tried to do it again a few times, each time brought down by Anons again. FBI reports were also immediately filed by Anons in the wake of the video: http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtopic.php?t=2912

    While I could point out the inconsistencies in that ‘message’ (such as the words ‘elite anonymous’, which no Anonymous, involved in this movement or not, would ever use (it’s a semi-cultural thing)), or point out that a real Anonymous would never have referred to any of their own acts as a ‘terrorist attack’, which the video’s maker does, I suppose you would find it hard to believe my perspective on things.

    – anonterrorist has admitted himself that these are all parodies, presumably of the statements the CoS itself has been releasing, but the sarcasm can go over people’s heads, I suppose.

    – The lotsofscam.nl link is broken, by the way.

    – From the standpoint of evidence, I’m afraid the burden of proof is technically not on Anonymous to show that none have killed for ‘lulz’; on the contrary, the burden of proof is on others to show that indeed, someone has committed such an act. This is known as the null hypothesis; an example would be something like this.

    The Pink Elephant Story

    Person A: Some elephants are grey. Hypothesis: There are no pink elephants.
    Person B: Your hypothesis will be disproved when a pink elephant is found.

    If a pink elephant is found, then A will have been proven wrong, but until then A’s statement seems logically sound. It will only take one pink elephant to falsify A’s hypothesis.

    Person A: Some elephants are grey. Hypothesis: All elephants are grey.
    Person B: Your hypothesis will be disproved when all existing elephants have been observed to be grey.

    We can see the difficulty that would be involved in trying to locate every single elephant in existence in order to falsify A’s hypothesis.

    Likewise, in our case (sorry for the long-winded tale), it would be easier to locate “nutcakes in (Anonymous’) ranks” rather than prove that all of them are not, in fact, nutcakes.

    On the other hand, Anonymous and critics of Scientology seem to have provided numerous documented and non-documented cases of nutcake-ness in the history of the CoS, but that’s a whole new can of beans.

    – I don’t think Anonymous has voiced any expectations of Saintliness from the CoS to date. I may be wrong, of course.

    – Whether the protests are merely a front for ‘criminal activities’ or not, I believe most, if not all, of the 7000+ people protesting on Feb 10 were sincerely interested in the issues brought up regarding the CoS’s actions. This will likely be seen again on the next protest on March 15th.

    – I’m also failing to make the connection between overtures of caring for Scientologists and religious bigotry.

  46. Hey Sam,

    sure such things happen in organizations with leaders. “The CoS” would never be able to post a bomb threat, because “the CoS” is a symbol not people. It is unlikely that one of them would post a bomb threat given what Scientology teaches, i.e. such type of actions wreck your well-being and spiritual progress. I however know “Scientologists” who did violated the law, refused to correct the wrong and were ultimately thrown out of Scientology, but also others who took responsibility for their acts and got clean. It’s a matter of personal choice and taking the consequences.

    I am not a maths genius but one I know for sure: The more people an organization has the higher the probability is that a “black sheep” is amongst them. It is ridiculous for members of Anonymous to show up and claim that “Anonymous” has nothing to do with it. How would they know? They don’t even know each other.

    Look at the time: Only after some hardcore Scientology haters got the mob moving (using an already existing symbol and organization structure called “Anonymous”) Church organizations and Scientologists became subject to criminal attacks. So Anonymous is now becoming a symbol for criminal activities and those 4chan’s who only wanted fun are now being prosecuted just as their “friends” are.

    – Lu

  47. Answer my question, Lu. Whose “plan” was it? Whose “little agenda”? Who, in other words, is the Third Party?

    Sam: I don’t consider myself a part of capital-A Anonymous either. I’m just exercising my right to remain little-a anonymous.

  48. I am not anon (hence why I use my name here) but looking at the way they run they do seem to be run without a leader at all. I mean I was on youtube when a bomb threat from anon came on and immediately people calling themselves anon crowded the place saying that it didn’t represent them etc. That wouldn’t happen in an organisation with leaders… unless the CoS posted the bomb threat? Which one is it?

  49. @Comment by NotQuiteAnonymous on February 19, 2008 6:03 pm

    “Anonymous is a spontaneous movement”? Yeah, right. A very organized “spontaneous” movement that was. I think you were waiting for a “good reason” to launch your plan of 2007 and then came along the Cruise video.

    “No leaders, no followers: just a bunch of people working together for a common goal.”

    Nice message to cover up your little agenda. Impressive, almost.

    – Lu

  50. @Comment by Anon on February 19, 2008 6:19 am

    Anonymous is inciting hate crimes. I interviewed people in Southern CA and turned evidence in to the appropriate places. But with a little knowledge of Google you can actually find it on the net.

    Here some of the examples:

    Illegal computer sabotage (damage claim something around $500,000):
    http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/%22Anonymous%22_releases_statements_outlining_%22War_on_Scientology%22
    http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/01/anonymous-hacke.html

    Illegal copyright violations, done for the damage, not to “study for free”:
    http://tv.micze.net/j01/doc/ (note the “anonymous briefing pack”)

    Scaring people to death:
    http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/02/draft-white-pow.html
    http://www.ocregister.com/news/powder-church-strain-1970259-scientology-cornstarch

    SURE they DENY involvement. Who wouldn’t? That’s several years of jail for the guys who did it. And Scientology was not known to receive anthrax envelopes BEFORE Anonymous started spreading hate and violence on the net. Yes, I am not neutral in this because I know a woman who almost lost her unborn when she opened one of those envelopes. She is a clerical staff, opens and routes mail. Is that is the big bad Scientology you are trying to impress?

    Murder and bomb threats (by internet posting, by email, phone, fax)
    http://web2announcer.com/video/display/27056
    http://youtube.com/anonterrorist
    http://www.lotsofscam.nl/YouTube – Scientologists.BombThreat.flv

    SURE they say it’s FAKE. Prove it. Show me you have no nutcakes in your ranks who go out and kill people for the “lulz”, make their little IRL version of WOW or LOD. Show me that you are so effing special that you are all Saints, just like you expect it from the Church of Scientology!

    “Pranks”, uh-so-funny phone calls or fake food orders driving receptionists to tears. You should be at the receiving end of this, Anonymous, you wouldn’t stand it for more than a couple of minutes, the coward you are. YOU are destroying people. This “protest” shit is just a fake to pull your butt out of the trouble you created for yourself, and that is a series of criminal activities.

    Turn yourself in and come clean. But don’t pretend to care about Scientologists! That is just bigotry ( http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/?p=3212 ) and disgusting.

    – Lu

  51. So… who exactly “manipulated” Anonymous into doing its bidding? The psychs? The ARSCC? Wise Beard Man? The Marcabians? Because as far as I can tell, Anonymous is a spontaneous movement forged from the righteous anger of the Internet. No leaders, no followers: just a bunch of people working together for a common goal. Strangely, Scientologists like yourself seem to be the only ones incapable of grasping this fact.

  52. There is no proof about what you say about Anonymous. I find what you have written to contain many slanderous statements about everyday citizens that are merely speaking out about their concerns.

  53. @ lu: I also would like to see this evidence. As a member of anonymous myself, I have seen no illegal actions, as this has been a peaceful protest. I have seen lies and deceit on the side of the CoS though, and I am calling bull on your posts.

    Please produce proof, or cease your false accusations.

  54. @Comment by Mike on February 18, 2008 7:44 pm

    Not long, and if you are one of those guys who found it funny to send white anthrax-like powder to pregnant women: better start running for cover. Or turn yourself in. That is the only thing that now can still save your ass.

    – Lu

  55. @Comment by sam on February 18, 2008 6:32 pm

    Aggressive, no. I am more like exasperated. Anon might be a “group of concerned people” but what they are concerned with is spreading fear, lies and provocations, a dwarf version of the common terrorist, but not less criminal. They are destroying Free Speech to the extent that Scientologists and free thinkers are not daring to come out and talk openly about their ideas because their life could be threatened and destroyed, just as it happened already to individuals who are not even Scientologists but “only” saw the bigotry “Anonymous” is and said so in public. There is no justification for destruction of Free Speech. And there is nothing wrong with calling a criminal a criminal.

    Again, I am not targeting those who bought into the “Anonymous” propaganda and blindly followed their orders. Those guys are just tools working for an agenda they don’t even know about. Like in a cult, as you say.

    – Lu

  56. How long are we going to have to wait for the evidence of:

    1. Anthrax scares?
    2. Bomb threats?
    3. Murder threats?
    4. Break-ins?

    An impartial obsever would want some evidence for these allegations, no? And who are those who alledgedly manipulated them to do these things?

    Can you point me to any good sources of information about this group?

  57. Thats a bit aggressive isn’t it from someone that is meant to be neutral? From what I understand anon has no leaders and is just a group of concerned people that see the church as being a threat to Western society. Reading up about it it does certainly seem like a cult tbh.


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